328 fuel odor | FerrariChat

328 fuel odor

Discussion in '308/328' started by bill brooks, Jul 18, 2008.

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  1. bill brooks

    bill brooks F1 Veteran
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    Jul 30, 2007
    6,050
    waynesburg,pa
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    bill brooks
    i just recently noticed a very, very faint odor of fuel coming from,i think, the outlet end of the cat where
    it just begins to turn into the muffler.
    the odor was noticed while walking by on my way thru the garage. it was not arresting or showed no
    wet spots on the floor or around the cat for that matter. this odor appeared the next morning( after a run) with a
    stone cold engine bay and no recent fill-ups. i would guess there's 1/4 tanks. i never blip the throttle prior to shut-down
    so that's not a source of raw fuel laying in the exhaust system.
    i sniffed all the fuel-related hose areas, but no odors.i could see nothing on the underside of the f.i.system either.
    this is a very peculiar situation that is making me concerned something more serious may be developing.
    i would appreciate any thoughts on this quandry.

    thanks, bb

    _____________________________________

    curiouser and curiouser!
     
  2. UpNorth

    UpNorth Formula 3
    Owner

    Sep 30, 2006
    1,768
    Quebec, Canada
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    Francois
    First get a fire exthinguisher and put in your car. You never know.
    Did you fell a loss of power in your last run?
    Maybe you have piston not firing and fuel is going into the cat.
    From what I read so far it usually burn in the cat and then big problems might occur.
    Get it into a shop for a real inspection.
    don't take any chance with such an occurence.
    One of my friend here almost lost his 308 a month ago because of fuel burning in the cat.
    To be safer have it towed to your mechanic...My 2 cents
     
  3. bill brooks

    bill brooks F1 Veteran
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    Jul 30, 2007
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    bill brooks
    well, i don't have any noticeable performance loss.
    i looked inside the muffler tips. all looked good with no odors coming out. the chrome tips are not
    sooty or blackened either.
    hmmmn...
     
  4. UpNorth

    UpNorth Formula 3
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    Sep 30, 2006
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    Francois
    Is the cat getting hotter than usual?
    Did you get a signal from the slow down light?
     
  5. bill brooks

    bill brooks F1 Veteran
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    Jul 30, 2007
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    no slow down light.
    i'm not implying the problem is necessarily inside the exhaust. nor am i suggesting an exhaust leak at that area.
    i was just trying to get a feel for what might cause the odor.
    please keep in mind we are talking an odor way down on the ppm scale, not an overwhelming blast in the face.
     
  6. UpNorth

    UpNorth Formula 3
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    Sep 30, 2006
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    Francois
    Maybe just one misfire just before you shut down the motor.
    If everything was not up to full temp then maybe gas going in the cat didn't burn...
     
  7. greg328

    greg328 F1 Rookie

    Nov 17, 2003
    4,209
    Austin, TX USA
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    Greg
    I just bought a 1987 328 GTB, (23,800 miles, GREAT condition) last week, and going over her carefully. Will be doing belts/tensioners, plugs, fuel and air filters, possibly drive belts, etc...

    I notice a rather present fuel odor after I drive the car. Haven't been able to localize the source yet.

    I'm coming from a 77 GTB, where I replaced all the soft fuel hoses on that car, and knew where to look exactly for anything fuel-related. This FI 328 is a more complex beast!

    Can anybody share info as to where to locate all the soft fuel hoses on a 328, or maybe where a connection could be compromised?

    Don't worry, I'm not driving her until I solve this!

    Greg in Houston
     
  8. Steelton Keith

    Steelton Keith F1 Veteran
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    Aug 19, 2009
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    Keith Hall
    check fuel return line on 328
     
  9. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Nov 29, 2001
    13,562
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    Mitchell Le
    also check the fuel filler neck.
     
  10. greg328

    greg328 F1 Rookie

    Nov 17, 2003
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    Greg
    fuel filler neck, large hose appears good. Where is the fuel return line?
     
  11. PT 328

    PT 328 F1 Rookie
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    May 1, 2005
    4,004
    #11 PT 328, Dec 14, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2011
    Have you replaced the fuel lines?
     
  12. DWPC

    DWPC Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2011
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    Sedona AZ
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    Dennis
    If the gas-tight cat/muffler joint was leaking enough gas fumes to be smelled, you'd almost certainly hear an exhaust leak buzzing there. If the odor persists, get the fuel hose diagram for the 328 from the Parts Book (http://www.ferraridatabase.com/The_Downloads/The%20Documents/Spare%20Parts%20Catalogue%20328%201988.pdf) and start tracking down a leak. Replacing ALL your 25 year-old gas hoses is a no-brainer anyway. They're not only ancient; they weren't designed for ethanol or MTBE. You can join the frequent debate on SAE spec NAPA gas hose vs. $$$ F-car specialty hoses, but just get them replaced.
     
  13. greg328

    greg328 F1 Rookie

    Nov 17, 2003
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    Greg
    Well, the search begins, for a complete list of all the 328 rubber fuel hoses. I did download the PDF listed above.

    If anybody has compiled a list of lengths and "gauges" of all the needed hoses for a 328, I'd appreciate a pointer to that page or link.

    My aim is to replace the filler neck hose, crossover pipe hoses, tank to pump, and all the other soft hoses.

    Ricambi has a kit of the above large hoses, but it's very expensive. Gotta be a way to put these together for a bit less $$.. ??

    Greg
     
  14. Crowndog

    Crowndog F1 Veteran

    Jul 16, 2011
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    Fairfield,Pa
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  15. greg328

    greg328 F1 Rookie

    Nov 17, 2003
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    Greg
    Thanks Crowndog. Actually that list is for a carb 308, a very different set of hoses. I did this exact same project, using that list, on my 77 GTB years ago.

    I just did a search and found several hits on 328-specific fuel hoses...

    Greg
     
  16. greg328

    greg328 F1 Rookie

    Nov 17, 2003
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    Can somebody explain what this hose is? I think it's the hose that runs off the filler neck back into the tank to catch overflow/spill at the fuel filler?


    Greg
    87 328
     
  17. greg328

    greg328 F1 Rookie

    Nov 17, 2003
    4,209
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    Greg
    Or, is is a line/hose combo from fuel distributor to passenger/right-side tank?

    Would like to know..

    Also, I'd like to know if there is a need to relieve fuel pressure on the 328 before I start cracking these hoses open and off. If so, how?

    I've had my car only a few weeks, and it's been parked since I bought it home. Too much fuel odor in the garage, can't risk a fire. I plan on starting the hose replacement project this coming week..

    Thanks,
    Greg
    87 328 GTB
     
  18. PT 328

    PT 328 F1 Rookie
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    May 1, 2005
    4,004
    If you are replacing all of the fuel lines I suggest removing the engine lid as it will provide easier access to the lines that run between the two tanks along the firewall. In regards to removing the excess fuel, when I replaced my fuel lines I removed the gas cap and drained the tanks utilizing the drain plug under the car. I did this in a well ventilated area and turned off my gas water heater for extra safety. I also disconnected the battery.

    Here are a few links to point you in the direction to locate the fuel lines.

    http://www.ricambiamerica.com/parts_catalogs.php?M=FE&P=&V=diag&I=2390

    http://www.ricambiamerica.com/parts_catalogs.php?M=FE&P=&V=diag&I=2389
     
  19. JohnnyS

    JohnnyS F1 World Champ
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    Oct 19, 2006
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    I replaced mine 2 years ago (87 328) and there is a clear plastic hose that runs from the filler neck to a cross-over pipe. Why it is clear plastic, I don't know, but mine had a blister (bubble) about the size of a quarter and it was hard as a rock. When replaced, the gas odor was eliminated. I think that blister had a crack as well and vapors escaped. Due to the location, driver's side and up by the firewall, it allowed vapors into the car when the top was off or the window was down.
     
  20. mwr4440

    mwr4440 Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 8, 2007
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    Mark W.R.
    If you are NOT going to go with SRI (Yep it IS expensive) then watch those NEW hoses CAREFULLY. They could "noodle" on you in a hurry.

    SRI did not dream up and create that expensive fuel hose kit with Gates Rubber literally right down the street, for nothing.



    ALSO REPLACE ALL the plastic fuel lines too. Verrel here has the OEM kit.

    I had about 8 potential fire sources on those lines that I could see and feel and swear were in perfect condition (YEA, RIIIIIGHT), until I took them off. :eek:

    Oh and do NOT forget the plastic line that runs from the accumulator to the fuel filter. Most people do.
     
  21. Robz328

    Robz328 F1 Veteran
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    Mar 16, 2009
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    Rob Hemphill
    Great posts guys!

    All pertinent to preventing another burned car.

    I am in progress of refurbing my 328 fuel system and will post it in pics soon. This will include installing SRI hoses below and doing the K-Jet lines. I haven't decided to use Verrell's kit yet (WIP).

    greg328, if the odor is strong, and you have a fuel with ethanol, I would recommend draining the tanks and "buttoning-up" the car until you are ready to do the work or pay for it to be done. If your fuel has absolutely no ethanol in it, then you don't need to drain.

    Ethanol blend fuels will separate over time and the boundary layer will cause corrosion in the aluminum fuel tanks.
     
  22. mwr4440

    mwr4440 Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Save yourself the trouble and Use Verrell's kit too.

    He has managed to get OEM manufactured parts (near impossible except with a liscense agreement the company does NOT easily give out) and it is inexpensive and well documented.

    Only one other person who is not in the FI business and over a certain volumn I know can sell the stuff and he is over here in Europe with me.
     
  23. Robz328

    Robz328 F1 Veteran
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    I agree with you to a point. However the plastic lines are polyamide, which may be ok. However, I'm reading pubs about ethanol mix fuels' compatabilities and polyamide came up as a possible negative. It may not be a problem for fuels up to 15% ethanol. After more review, I will make my choice. OEM is not my real interest here.
     
  24. bill brooks

    bill brooks F1 Veteran
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    Jul 30, 2007
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    waynesburg,pa
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    bill brooks
    just left the p & r section i was afraid it was getting too hot for me.

    last winter (2010) i removed the cat on gabriella ('87 328) and installed a straight pipe.

    this spring during the 1st run i noticed some combustion fumes particularly at a stop
    sign or when making turns from a dead stop. no big deal, i expected that.

    it could be my imaginination but occassionally when i walk around the back of her
    i get this same wiff of fuel. if i walk past and return, the oder is gone.

    since i changed all the hoses 3 years ago, i feel reasonably confident they are not
    at fault. last year during the 3yr. service we changed the fuel injectors and also the
    distrbutor lines to each injector. (verrell's kit)

    my feeling is the problem started then although i can't be sure. one thing for sure is
    i now have a pronounced stutter or miss when driving which was never there before.
    we changed the spark plug wires, rotors, new dist.caps and new extenders. none of the old
    stuff looked bad and the problem persists. these would have been changed anyway.

    also i noticed this year that she will not start cleanly but a little ragged until the throttle
    is blipped and then clears up. kind of like an old multi-carb car i guess. the idle is fine
    and no other anomolies except for the stutter

    some have suggested there's a faulty fuel injector. i'm aware of bosch's 10-20% failure
    rate out of the box so that will be explored next spring.

    meanwhile i'm continuing to monitor the faint/occassional oder and perhaps pinpoint it
    now that she's up on jacks for the winter pm. i seem to sense the left-rear area as
    being the source. might be the aux air valve or even the digiplex on that side. i did
    replace the vacuum hose when i changed fuel hoses so i'm still puzzling over this area.

    if i only had a hand-held sniffer sensitive to gasoline it would be a snap to locate the
    source.

    no one else smells it when around her which makes it very frustrating...

    hopefully will find out and report.
     
  25. mwr4440

    mwr4440 Five Time F1 World Champ
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    The lines are OEM manufactured.

    I cannot say if they are OEM (1980's) formulated.





    Germany has been leary of Ethenol from day ONE.

    Of course the Govt never has been but MB, Porsche, BMW, Audi, et-al here, have. They don't trust it in any concoction.
     

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