328 GTS 6/86 Swiss without Catalyst How much Kw ? | FerrariChat

328 GTS 6/86 Swiss without Catalyst How much Kw ?

Discussion in '308/328' started by batmeier, Dec 23, 2020.

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  1. batmeier

    batmeier Rookie

    Dec 4, 2020
    7
    Cologne
    Full Name:
    Christian Meier
    Hi Guys,

    just buy my 328 GTS

    its a Swiss Modell from 6/86 without Catalyst.

    My Problem is nobody can say me for sure how much power / Compression and torque the car have.

    I have Classic Data Assessment who say 199 Kw

    The German Papers say 195 KW and 7.000 Rpm and HighSpeed from 263

    The original Swiss papers, Ferrari and past owner dont have

    The 328 has Ferrari Classiche but only confirm that all is original and say nothing about power and so on.

    The Swiss modells with catalyst had 187 kw and compression 9,2:1 instead of 9,8:1. also a torque 275 Nm instead of 304 Nm

    Does this apply to my Car ?

    I heard about Swedish cars with the same Engine Type F105C046 with diffrent Specs.

    Hope you guys can help me?

    Here are some details from my 328 GTS

    Modellyear 6/86

    Type F106 AS/R

    Chassis number: ZFFWA20S000064655

    Engine Type: F105C046

    Engine Number: 01319

    Gearbox F106 MB

    Gearbox number: 1001

    Thank you so much

    Regards

    bat
     
  2. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,794
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    #2 Steve Magnusson, Dec 23, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2020
    I don't think it does (if your car is a 1986 CH version 328). I believe 1986 CH version 328 virtually has the euro version 328 engine (no catalyst, no air injection, higher compression ratio), and just different transfer gear and gearbox gear ratios (as shown in the 308QV/328 WSM). In the F documentation, 1987/1988 CH versions seem to be different from 1986 CH versions for all F models.

    Model Year can be a little iffy in Europe (and exhausts often get modified) -- can you confirm that your car's engine also does not have an air injection system? Can you post a picture of the engine? Have some unclear VIN information that engine F105C046 is a 1987-89 CH version, and a 1986 CH version would be engine F105C. Also, what is the 4th digit in your VIN?
     
  3. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
    12,083
    FRANCE
    Hi Steve.

    The swiss homologation papers for the car, dated december 1985, says engine F105C046, 310 Nm and 196 kw, which would be 266,5 hp, so this "046" engine would be missing 3,5 hp compared to a standard, euro Non cat engine given for 270 hp...

    https://files.admin.ch/astra_ffr/mofis/Datenlieferungs-Kunden/opendata/2000-Typengenehmigungen_TG_TARGA/2400-pdf-Scans_TG_bis_1985/2430-franzoesich/025134.pdf

    Rgds
     
  4. TripleBlack

    TripleBlack Formula Junior

    May 1, 2006
    535
    Paris, France
    The 85 CH 328 has the air injection system.
    A bit different from the US market car (TAV 10). It also has a different flywheel, head cylinders, fuel injection, blow-by, gearbox transmission from Euro standard engine...
     
  5. batmeier

    batmeier Rookie

    Dec 4, 2020
    7
    Cologne
    Full Name:
    Christian Meier
    Hey guys thank you so much for your help!!! I only was able to make my post because of the sensationell website www.308-328.com

    Jean Phillip helps me a lot!! I am very grateful for his and your support !

    i think I have the air injection system, because the mechanic at Ferrari Eberlein told me something like this when I was there Friday to check the progress of my car

    enclose you find some pictures you was asking for

    All the best and a big thank you to all of you who invest time to help me out

    because after I buy the car it burns inside me which specs my car have !



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  6. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,794
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    My bad -- you are correct that 1985-86 CH 328 have the pulse air injection system (but there is almost no performance penalty as it only operates when cold and there's very little obstruction of the exhaust ports).

    Thanks for posting that, and it makes perfect sense to me that early CH 328 engine assemblies would be labeled F105C046 just to identify that the gearboxes are different (as I noted, the VIN information that I have was/is unclear -- would still like to know what the OP has in the VIN 4th digit). However, although it is "missing" 3,5 hp, the max torque is increased a little (310 Nm vs 304 Nm) -- so my guess is that the early CH engine is virtually identical to the euro 328 (except for the added pulse air injection system noted above), but just with slightly different cam timing to give it a little more mid-range "mountain" torque at the cost of a few high-RPM max hp (I can't find any information for early CH 328 cam timing to compare to the euro 328 cam timing).
     
  7. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,794
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Thanks for posting. The "W" in the 4th digit of your VIN helps confirms that your 328 is the early CH F105C046 engine (nearly identical mechanically to the euro 328 engine, but with the added pulse air injection system) with the power and torque values shown in nerofer's swiss homologation papers.
     
  8. batmeier

    batmeier Rookie

    Dec 4, 2020
    7
    Cologne
    Full Name:
    Christian Meier
    waymar and moysiuan like this.
  9. bertrand328

    bertrand328 Formula 3

    Jun 1, 2015
    1,620
    France
    Full Name:
    Bertrand
    1986 CH model have F105C046 engine and think 1987 to 1989 CH model have F105P046 engine. But I would have more CH model owners who could confirm that point
     
  10. batmeier

    batmeier Rookie

    Dec 4, 2020
    7
    Cologne
    Full Name:
    Christian Meier
    Here are Swiss Papers from a later Modell year with 255 HP

    The Engine is named here F105I046



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    bertrand328 likes this.
  11. bertrand328

    bertrand328 Formula 3

    Jun 1, 2015
    1,620
    France
    Full Name:
    Bertrand

    One more !

    So F105C046 engine without cat in 1986, F105I046 with cat in 1987 ? F105P046 ? also with cat in 1988 and 1989 ?
     
  12. batmeier

    batmeier Rookie

    Dec 4, 2020
    7
    Cologne
    Full Name:
    Christian Meier
    #12 batmeier, Dec 24, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2020

    yes there are 3 Engines

    F105C046 without cat in 1986
    F105I046 with cat in 1987
    F105P046 with cat and ABS in 1988 and 1989

    so Swiss car history of the 328GTS is:

    F106 AS/R
    Type certificate: CH 025135
    Engine: F105C046

    chassis numbers:
    ZFFWA20S000......
    ZFFXA20A4G0......
    ZFFWA20B000......

    F106 AS/R-I
    Type certificate: CH 1F1003
    Engine: F105I046

    chassis numbers:
    ZFFXA20A5G0......
    ZFFCA20S000......

    F 106 AS/R-C

    Type certificate: CH 1F1009

    Engine: F105P046

    chassis numbers:
    ZFFCA20S000......


    differences:

    F106 AS/R 3183 Ccm 196 kW 310 Nm 7000 rpm 266 HP 260 km/h compression 9,8:1 1360 Kg
    F106 AS/R-I 3183 Ccm 187,5 kW 275 Nm 6750 rpm 255 HP 255 km/h compression 9,2:1 1420 Kg
    F 106 AS/R-C 3183 Ccm 187,5 kW 275 Nm 6750 rpm 255 HP 255 km/h compression 9,2:1 1395 Kg


    Merry Xmas

    bat
     
  13. TripleBlack

    TripleBlack Formula Junior

    May 1, 2006
    535
    Paris, France
    Absolutely, there is an intermediate version of the engine catalyzed without pressure sensor, then, around November / December 1987, the version with pressure sensor appears.
    We had talked about it with Nerofer and bertrand328.
    The last car that I know with this intermediate engine is the chassis SE 75297. The first with the sensor is the SE 75893. Between the 2, there is the change of engine numbering but I have not managed to specify more than that chassis number, this version 046 is still quite rare.

    You can easily recognize one or the other of these engines because the sensor is clearly visible next to the support bar between the cylinder head and the trunk.
     
    batmeier likes this.
  14. bertrand328

    bertrand328 Formula 3

    Jun 1, 2015
    1,620
    France
    Full Name:
    Bertrand

    I check Swiss approval but ZFFXA20A4G0... and ZFFXA20A5G0.. are US type 328. This should be car imported from US or Canada. Custom import ? We know several Swiss car were imported to Canada but US/CDN car to Swistzerland.. Just discovered #77741 and its story on Michael Sheehan ferrarisonline
     
  15. JohnnyTS

    JohnnyTS Formula Junior

    Jun 3, 2012
    907
    Pretoria East, RSA
    Full Name:
    John
    very interesting, I did not know there were 187.5kW versions.
     

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