328 GTS park lights & rear demister

Park lights are for parking. Why would dash lights be needed when parked?


Your car USED to work correctly.

 

I sentence you to get a copy of the 376/86 OM and read it Everything (disregarding the wiring modification you made) seems "stock" for a euro 328. The yellow warning light is described as a "spare indicator" (i.e., it's not used for anything) -- although the 328 SPC lists three (somewhat conflicting?) descriptions: "Fog light warning light" For R.H.D. and U.S. versions", "Rearheated window warning light for U.S. version"; and "Yellow warning lights Not for SA and U.S. versions".

Is your 328 RHD, and do they all have the tachometer and speedometer positions reversed compared to the LHD versions?

(and I, too, would like to know why you want the dash lights to come "on" when the P switch is pressed?)

 

One thing oft understood about UK and other Euro countries. On many country lanes, they must have parking lights turned on when stopped OR parked, minimally on the traffic side. I can't say with assurance that the 328 UK rhd does have this provision but it might carry over to some lhd euro cars. The earlier post about needing dash lights when parked is quite literally a valid question.

 

Yes, I think that is the intend function (and shouldn't be that much of a drain for a good battery for a few hours use).

Thanks for the info about the RHD tach/speedo placement -- from my LHD conditioned viewpoint, it's like it gives much more importance to the tach.

Understood about the lights, but the more typical approach has been to make a modification that prevents the headlights from raising when using the stalk switch with the lever at the top, but still turns "on" the external parking lights and the dash lights. I know the details have been posted before, but not sure where they are -- perhaps someone will know where to find them.

 

This is how my Euro LHD works. Twist the headlight stalk to switch on normal headlights and then move it up (as if indicating to turn right) and 2 front parking lights on EACH side are lit, headlamp pods are down and instrument lights are on. I presume this is the set up you're looking for.

Presss the P button on the centre console and only ONE front outside parking light on each side is lit, pods down, instrument lights off and only half of rear lights is lit ( I forget whether bottom or top half). I presume this set up is for maximum energy conservation.

 

This is a problem with the english language.

Parking lights are for parking. The console switch turns on one bulb on each corner, so the car can be seen when parked along the road, with minimal battery load.

But in english, "running lights" are also called parking lights. Twisting the lighting stalk turns on running lights: several bulbs per corner, side markers (depending on market), dash lights, etc.

Anyone know the literal translation of the italian terms?
(According to babble fish: luci di parcheggio = parking lights, comando luci esterne = command external lights.)
("Running lights" would be "luci correnti".)

Different markets have different rules regarding what combination of lights can come on at the same time.
(It keeps the bureaucrats busy.)

Unfortunately, in the US market cars, this means that the front fog lights are run off the running light circuits, which can overload pin J3 on the fuse panel. (When this happens, turning the headlight stalk only turns on the parking lights (including the indicator lamp). Weird wiring.)

 

When I twist the stalk, all the running lights come on, including the four parking light bulbs, plus the dash lights, side markers, and a couple of bulbs in the rear deck lid edge to light up the rear license plate.

The headlight buckets do *not* come up with twisting the stalk on my early '88 -- but mine is a USA model.

There are three lever positions on my headlight stalk -- off, low, and high. The headlamps will only come on with the stalk turned (running lights on), regardless of the lever position. The headlight buckets only rise with any combination of the lights being on (low or high). The US edition has three relays just for operating the headlight buckets -- a relay logic circuit.

I haven't found any combination to leave the buckets elevated with the lights off. I just pull the battery disconnect when I have to change sealed beams.

All these market-specific lighting rules are one reason that 21st century cars have gone to microchip controlled lighting. (That, and that silicon is now cheaper than copper wiring harnesses.) On my '03 EVO, the lighting controls just send serial bus signals to the computers at each light cluster.


On my US edition 328, the rear window defroster runs off the passenger window relay and fuse. There isn't a rear fog light on US models.

 

I actually think that what DGS is describing is exactly like the Euro set up. I'm having trouble articulating this properly as I'm not a native speaker but I "think" that the perceived differences are in the idle position of the headlamp stalk. If you have it in the lower position twisting it will turn headlights (dipped beam) on. If it's in the higher position twisting it will turn on just the position lights.

In the translation of "comando luci esterne" comando simply refers to the switch. The running lights or "luci esterne" in some European languages are translated literally as position lights or marker lights.

Apologies if that description is about as clear as mud

 

Never heard of a UK 328 or any other have pods up with the lights themselves off.

Out of curiosity - are only half of the rear lights on in this position in your car

 

With your Parking lights switch jumpered in that fashion, you're feeding the running lights through the instrument lights.
If your wiring is like the US model, you're feeding the parking lights off fuse 4 (cigar lighter) rather than fuse 16 (position lights).

I checked, and the console lights do not run through the dimmer on mine. If you'd jumpered downstream of your dimmer, you'd be able to use the dash dimmer to dim your running lights.

I had misread earlier: on the US model, there are *four* relays controlling the headlamp buckets: "t", "d", "b', and "e". (In addition to relays "n", "l", and "m" to operate the headlights themselves.) Plus oddball relay "o" with two normally open positions to feed voltage to both of the otherwise separate parking and running light circuits.

According to the (multi-market) spare parts catalog, the LHD and RHD circuit boards are the same up to SN 68195. They differ after 69187. (Also, the Swiss/Austrian model is different from others.) The column "mainswitch" appears to be the same for all markets. However, the dash wiring harness is different for each market. The oddball "o" relay appears common to all markets.

From the US wiring diagram, there are three "position" wires from the stalk switch -- off (AG), lo (GV), and high (R). Each is grounded when the switch is in the appropriate position. The AG (azzurro/giallo : light blue with yellow stripe) wire activates relay "t" when the headlamps are *not* supposed to come up. When activated, relay "t" prevents the ground from rotating the stalk from reaching the common bucket relay "d".

From the way the wiring diagram is shown, it looks like relay "t" is on all the time the battery is connected, *except* when the headlights are on. But I checked, and I don't hear the relay clicking "off" when I move the stalk down with the lights off. (And my "off" current is less than a relay coil.) I presume that there's interconnection between the lever and rotate switch positions, so the ground doesn't happen in the "off" position if the stalk isn't turned. (I haven't checked it with a meter.) (Relay "t" also controls relay "n" to select "flash" between fog lights and high beams.)

With your stalk turned and in the "no headlamp" position, does flash light up the high beams or the fog lights? (On a US edition, the buckets are down at this point, and the fogs are still the flashers.)

If the UK version is not supposed to raise the headlight buckets with the stalk in the "no headlight" position, (e.g. if it's supposed to operate like the US version) you could have a bad relay, or a bad connection on the lt.blu/yel wire. (Or the contact on the column switch.) On the US relay board, the upper (of three) rows of relays has only two relays: "u" and "t". On my car, this row is hidden up in the dash when the board is mounted in the car.

Your issue could be as simple as a dead "t" relay. If the relay never activates, it doesn't prevent the buckets from rising. Or you could have an issue with the column switch or wiring. On my car, I have to unbolt the circuit board and drop it a bit to reach the "u" or "t" relays to check them.

 

Hi guys

I have an Australian delivered 1984 308 QV.

When the left stalk is twisted the "park lights"and number plate lights come on.The headlights pop up but dont come on. Pushing the stalk down one position turns the headlights on dipped beam.Pushing down one more position turns the headlights on high beam!

This is not how its supposed to work according to the owners manual! I have deduced that the manual is incorrect!!!

There is a modification that can be done so that the "park lights" can be put on without raising the headlights.

here is the link: www.nwrfca.org and look under FAQ!

Hope this helps

Pete

 

My 328 did the same thing. But when I got a new (used) column switch, the head lights stayed down when the stalk was in the up position. Mine work like this:

Middle position for stalk - twist and the head lights pop up and are on low beam.
Upper position for stalk and twisted, the head light buckets stay down and parking lights are on.
Lower position for stalk and twisted - head lights buckets are up and high beams are on.

Perhaps my column switch was replaced years ago with one out of a 308?

 

Thanks for the link -- good reference for 308 owners.

The OP's question was on a 328, which is wired a bit differently.

That'd do it. The jumper between 30 and 87a feeds the rotate switch ground directly to the bucket relays (the bucket brigade? ).

When relay "t" activates (lever in top position) the relay connects 30 to 87 -- but there's nothing in the car connected to position 87. What's significant is that it disconnects 30 from 87a, removing the actuating ground from the bucket controls, and leaving the buckets down.

The jumper to position 87a left the relay never activated -- rotating the stalk grounds pin 30, and would always lift the buckets.
The jumper to position 87 did nothing at all.

I've been slowly slogging through the wiring diagram, function by function, trying to translate it to a series of functional diagrams a simple electrical engineer can understand.

I'd already been through the parking / running light circuits after the second time I burned out pin J3 on the circuit board. At dusk, I like to run with the running lights and fogs, leaving the headlamp buckets down. But since the fogs run off the running light fuse on US models, the full 15A load can overload that one little pin on the edge connector, especially if the wires are pulling on it a bit -- so the pin overheats and melts the plastic shell. I've been looking at ways to either rewire the fogs or bypass the J3 pin to fix the situation.

It might be nice to find a Euro wiring diagram for comparison. Anyone have a PDF version handy?