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328 GTS Start/run problem

Discussion in '308/328' started by 328GTSID, Jul 21, 2018.

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  1. 328GTSID

    328GTSID Rookie

    Jul 21, 2018
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    Gene Axtell
    #1 328GTSID, Jul 21, 2018
    yesterday, my 1986 328 GTS started and ran fine. I put it to bed and this morning, it won’t start and idle without assistance from my foot. If I let it run at about 3k rpm for a couple of minutes, I can let it Return to normal idle. If I shut it off, it does the same thing, I have to assist the idle at about 3k rpm.

    What is going on? Thank you in advance!
     
  2. maurice70

    maurice70 F1 Rookie

    Jan 25, 2004
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    maurice T
    #2 maurice70, Jul 22, 2018
    Euro or US spec car?
    Once it’s warmed up,will it idle normal?
     
  3. 328GTSID

    328GTSID Rookie

    Jul 21, 2018
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    Gene Axtell
    #3 328GTSID, Jul 22, 2018
    It’s a US car. Once the high idle is established with my foot, I can take my foot off and it returns to normal idle. When I shut it off, restarting requires the same process. I thought it might be temp related but it doesn’t seem so.
     
  4. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
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    Steve Magnusson
    #4 Steve Magnusson, Jul 22, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2018
    One easy thing you can do (although you might need another person to do the touching while you operate the acc pedal) is to determine if the frequency valve is buzzing/vibrating during the proper idle and not buzzing when it won't. This is a long shot, but going to 3K RPM does raise the alternator voltage to ~14V and generally shakes things around at a higher frequency (which might be helping the protection relay close); whereas, when just warm restarting at idle, the alternator voltage will be lower. Your symptom is very unusual (and hasn't been reported here AFAIK), but needing to give it a lot of throttle to keep it warm-running is very consistent with losing +12V power to run the Lambda system; however, it "healing" itself after some higher RPM operation (but then not still being OK at immediate warm restart) puts this one in the "strange gremlin" category ;)
     
  5. 328GTSID

    328GTSID Rookie

    Jul 21, 2018
    17
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    Gene Axtell
    #5 328GTSID, Jul 22, 2018
    Help me with the “frequency valve”. It doesn’t want to start “normally” at all right now but will start and run with manual help at around 3k and then may settle back to normal idle. I’ve always been happy when I can “stump the stars”!
    Interesting that it could be a voltage issue.
     
  6. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Steve Magnusson
    #6 Steve Magnusson, Jul 22, 2018
    You should read Section 3 of your OM ;)

    The frequency valve should buzz/vibrate whenever the fuel pump is running -- so whenever: 1) the engine is running, or 2) the starter motor is cranking, or 3) if you unplug the safety switch on the fuel distributor and turn the key "on" (this will run the fuel pump without the engine running). Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     

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  7. 328GTSID

    328GTSID Rookie

    Jul 21, 2018
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    Gene Axtell
    #7 328GTSID, Jul 22, 2018
    OUTSTANDING!!!
    I’m going to do some tinkering now and I’ll get back to you!
    Thank you!
     
  8. maurice70

    maurice70 F1 Rookie

    Jan 25, 2004
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    maurice T
    #8 maurice70, Jul 22, 2018
    Steve,could it possibly be the Auxiliary Air Valve stuck in the closed position?
     
  9. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #9 Steve Magnusson, Jul 22, 2018
    No, as that would have no effect on an immediate warm restart (as the AAV should be closed).
     
    maurice70 likes this.
  10. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

    Dec 12, 2005
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    #10 spirot, Jul 23, 2018
    Sounds to me like an air leak and or cracked air hose. if it idles after you run it up to 3K and then idles normally after that it could be the AAV.... but I think its in the hose vs. the valve it self.
     
  11. 328GTSID

    328GTSID Rookie

    Jul 21, 2018
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    Gene Axtell
    #11 328GTSID, Jul 23, 2018
    Thanks Spirot! That makes some sense and gives me another track to follow.
     
  12. Lawrence Coppari

    Lawrence Coppari Formula 3

    Apr 29, 2002
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    #12 Lawrence Coppari, Jul 27, 2018
    How is the detective work coming along? The cracked hose seems like a possibility to me. At low rpm air leak is problematic because it upsets the air fuel ratio. At high rpm where more air is taken in, the leak gets dwarfed. Check the large hose that goes from fuel distributor to intake manifold.
     
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  13. 328GTSID

    328GTSID Rookie

    Jul 21, 2018
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    Gene Axtell
    #13 328GTSID, Jul 27, 2018
    Thanks for the follow up Lawrence! I have not worked on it since the last post but I plan to get back at it Sunday. I will definitely let you know how it's going.
    Thanks again!
     
  14. 328GTSID

    328GTSID Rookie

    Jul 21, 2018
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    Gene Axtell
    #14 328GTSID, Jul 29, 2018
    Gents, I’m with the car now. Once temp gets in the motor and the engine idles at normal, the frequency valve vibrates. What I also note is a fairly rich mixture and a slight amount of “gurgling” at about 3k rpm. Once normal ladle achieved, throttle response seems about normal.
     
  15. 328GTSID

    328GTSID Rookie

    Jul 21, 2018
    17
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    Gene Axtell
    #15 328GTSID, Jul 30, 2018
    Good afternoon! I found the issue! It was a hose that became disconnected from the Auxiliary Air Valve! It was buried and I didn’t see it easily until I decided to remove the valve to verify it’s proper operation. I reconnected the hose, tightened all the clamps, I need to get replacement clamps and hose, and viola!!! It’s back to normal!
    Thanks to all who provide input on this thread and all the others I researched to Arrive at a course of action!
     
  16. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
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    Feb 24, 2006
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    #16 miketuason, Jul 30, 2018
    Good to hear You got it all sorted out,good job Gene!
     
  17. Lawrence Coppari

    Lawrence Coppari Formula 3

    Apr 29, 2002
    2,192
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    Lawrence A. Coppari
    #17 Lawrence Coppari, Jul 31, 2018
    "You endeavored to persevere", good work.
     

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