328 handling caveats?

Don't lift if you're too hot into the corner....

 

That pretty much sums it all up.

 

Brakes in 1988 aren't the same as brakes in 2008. You can brake much later entering a corner in a modern car than in a 328.

 

I'd also like to hear some respones on this topic. My 997 feels very predictable, very planted, very fast, and even very safe. It makes a bad driver look good. I've had several 911's. Their limits are "easily found", which, ironically, makes the cars feel safe and predictable.

The 328, it's difficult for me to get the feel of what it'll do (and not do). Straight line is great! But, throw in some curves, and the car doesn't feel like it's got much rubber on the road. 911's feel like go-karts. Predictable. This car, it's something else, It doesnt' lend itself to finding it's limits in a way that encourages one to try. It's a car that imparts a feeling of "I'll run off the road". as opposed to "tail happy, but, fun anyway".

 

The 328 has adjustable suspension elements. A four wheel alignment and fresh tires transformed mine from a bit tail sloppy in the wet to a very tossable machine, rain or shine.

The caveats about spins is that the 328 is mid-engine -- it has lower angular momentum than front engine cars, so the transition to a spin may happen more abruptly than a novice might expect. E.g. it turns more readily than a similar weight car with the weight out at the ends.

Otherwise it's just a front steer / rear drive car: you can shift it from understeer to oversteer with the throttle.

 

Right.

 

I don't know if it's peculiar to my car but when cornering the steering is initially reasonably heavy. You have to exert some force to keep it turned. As the cornering forces mount when accelerating in a corner I can feel a moment when the steering goes quite light. Beyond that lightness is probably a spin (I haven't spun yet and don't want to so I'm not 100% sure). That "light" area is where, for me, the car is most fun and can still be corrected gently by broadening the line or simply not accelerating more.

I don't know if others see what I mean but if you take your car on a track with wide run offs this is what you might want to look out for to assess roadholding limits of your car.

Lifting off mid bend does indeed cause oversteer - you can feel this too.

 

Your 997 is about 20 years newer, and probably has traction control, stability management software, ABS and massive tires. Modern cars are pretty much idiot-proof: the best comment I heard on this was on Top Gear during the F430 segment, where they said that an average driver could lap the track only a few seconds behind the most skilled race driver on the planet.

Take a 1975 930 Turbo (similar horsepower to the 308) around a few corners and see how safe and predictable you think it is. I like 911s, but the rear engine configuration is done out of tradition (and originally because of Volkswagen tooling that enabled the 356), not because it's optimal for handing.

The 328 and earlier cars are night and day different from the computerized stuff we have now. I could probably do laps in my 08 Audi TT while talking on my cell phone and leave old Porsches and my own old Ferrari in the dust. That said, I'd argue that modern "video game" cars (exotics like F430, 599, and higher end mass-produced cars like the Audi R8 and Porsche 997) just don't require anywhere near the amount of skill of the cars where it's all engine, tires, brake, throttle, wheel and driver.

 

Tillman is right. Don't lift if you go in hot. Ask me how I know LOL

 

I've owned two and tracked them some. First, get the alignment checked. The specs are in the manual. Make sure the car is weighted properly. Any good alignment shop can do it. The oversteer/spin rumor is greatly overdone. I have found the car to be very well balanced. In a turn, you can tighten the line by lifting some or broaden the line by adding some. The car is pretty easy to drift. If it gets a little out of shape, it's easy to catch. You have to make a big mistake to spin such as being way too hot on entry or an abrupt lift at the limit. It doesn't have enough power to really oversteer on exit. The biggest thing holding back it's handling is excessive body roll and modern cars will eat it for lunch, yet I've always enjoyed it because of the great, graceful balance and exquisite feedback. You always know exactly what each wheel is doing.

Dave

 

C'mon! what would Dave know?! I mean, it's not as if he's owned any F-cars! Uh...yeah... LOL!

 

Scott, check your air/fuel mixture. Looks like you're running rich.

 

LOL! No doubt!

 

+1! 90% of the 3x8 that came into my old shop over the course of 25 years were way off in alignment settings and transformed with a good alignment.

Reduce the positive caster some for lighter steering but keep it if you're tracking the car.

Our shop focused on preparing cars for the track. I found the cars to be delightful on track with the addition of some R-compound tires and a good alignment.

 

May have my alignment checked.

I swear, something's whisperin' in my ear..."You do not want to know what lies beyond....." in this car.

Plus, I've only driven it about 800 miles, not alot of familiary (nor trust!! smile) .

still learnin'

 

I'm still scared of it. I doubt it's the car, inexperience on my part, more likely.

It's heavier, and a little longer wheelbase, than I'm used to. (It seems like it's "on ice" to me alittle bit).

Don't misinterpret this as not lovin' the car LOL I do. Very much so.

(more seat time is definately in order )

 

Perfectly suited for long sweeping curves and gets unsettled with any type of quick turns. Its 1980's pure sports car, by 2020 a delivery truck will handle corners better.

 

Well Said. I have found that the body roll is the only limiting factor to me. it becomes a bit too uncomfortable, but you can still do some pretty fast cornering.

As for tail happy or stuff like that, I think you would have to be going way too fast or have brake problems to get into serious trouble. I have found that the 308 series can handle pretty well, much better than I had ever imagined... I have kept up with 348's and 355 in corners, only to be left on the straits... if you are determined you can have a lot of high performance fun... they will never keep up to 360 & 430's they are just too far advanced, flat cornering etc...

 

I have autocrossed for a lot of years in various cars, (not yet the 308) and i think this is a good way to learn vehicle controll at low speed.

However, practicing on the street is really frowned on, so i recommend you take the car to a track day/drivers school and get some help from an instructor, most importantly, in a safe environment. Learning about sliding the car and catching it on the street may not always have a happy ending.

I have had my 308 for 4 years and enjoyed bringing the maintenance up to date and doing a few improvements. I am very much looking forward to my first track day with the 308 on april 11th at thunderhill. Hope you can make it

and i mean I am REALLY REALLY looking forward to it.

most expectantly,
chris

 

Anybody know why the 308's/328's have so much body roll built-in? Was it because of the tire technology at the time? I mean they could have easily put on thicker anti-roll bars at the time but chose not to.

 

If you grew up on FWD, the 3x8 will certainly be a new experience.

For us old fogies who had to drive RWD year round (snow, ice, etc), it's a chance to use all those old driver tools.

For the FWD set, it's a new toolbox.

 

+1

In my limited experience I am more scared about understeer than spinning the car. When I have gone into a turn too hot I experienced major understeer and have to work the car around the turn with firm steering. Actually I've found that in these kind of situations lifting off the throttle slightly and briefly allows the nose to tuck into the turn. But I'm still learning. Maybe it's the differnce in handling between the 'B' and the 'S' that I've heard about.

Regardless, practicing in a safe environment (track, empty parking lot) will give you an idea of how your car will perform at limit.

-F