Buy

328 Headlights Not Coming Up

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Chiaro_Slag, Feb 10, 2004.

  1. Chiaro_Slag

    Chiaro_Slag F1 Veteran

    Oct 31, 2003
    7,731
    CA
    Full Name:
    Jerry
    Hi gang-

    Tonight my headlights decided to stop popping up. They come on, but don't pop up. What would be the problem? The relay?

    Also, the manual sucks in regards to how to manually raise the lights. They say to disconnect the wires to the power headlights motor. Ummm, I have no idea where those are!!! When I spin the manual knob, the lights pop up and then lower really quickly. I guess for it to work right, I have to disconnect the headlight motor wires per the manual, but I can't find them. :(

    I went to the nearest automotive store in search of the Bosch relay (Pep Boys), but neither Manny, Moe, or Jack had the needed part. Can these be obtained anywhere other than the casket of Enzo Ferrari? Maybe say a Napa autoparts?

    Any help would be appreciated.

    Thanks
     
  2. To remove this ad click here.

  3. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    21,620
    Texas
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Buy Bosch parts here: www.importeccatalog.com
    (just search using the 10-digit Bosch number on the component)

    or for just Bosch relays:

    http://www.waytekwire.com/bosch-relays.htm

    (IIRC they had even better prices than importec)

    NAPA will have an equivalent "STANDARD" brand relays for the ...113 and ...101 relays, but not for the ...006 relay (but not priced any better than the suppliers above).
     
  4. ChrisfromRI

    ChrisfromRI Karting

    Jan 28, 2003
    230
    Foster, RI
    Full Name:
    Chris F
    You will find clear access to the motors and the headlight jumper connections when you remove the louvers immediately behind the headlights.

    There is a manual knob in there to raise the headlights in the event of motor failure.

    I would check the electrical first before assuming motor failure. While you're in there checking, make sure to clean and tighten all of the electrical connections.

    I have assumed that you have already checked behind the dash for any relays and fuses involved with the desired function.

    Kind Regards, Chris
     
  5. matkat

    matkat Formula 3

    Mar 18, 2003
    1,840
    Scotland
    Full Name:
    Dave McGuire
    Please excuse me if I am wrong here,the 328 light lift function has seperate relays therefore with a relay failure only one light would go up/down look at the wiring diagram and look for the "common" I am sure you will find that the power supplies come together at the motor so be sure to check the connections there before looking to change it.
    best regards
    Dave McGuire
     
  6. Chiaro_Slag

    Chiaro_Slag F1 Veteran

    Oct 31, 2003
    7,731
    CA
    Full Name:
    Jerry
    Thanks for the info guys - I plan to remove the louvers tonight so that I can take a good look at the connections.

    There are 3 relays for the lifting motor - The manual reads as :

    Relay for R.H. Head-Lamp Lifting Motor
    Relay for L.H. Head Lamps, lifting motor
    Relay for Head Lamps Lifting Motor

    Not sure exactly what each of the 3 do.

    Hopefully I can find a problem with one of the connections. I also ordered a few relays from www.importeccatalog.com (http://www.waytekwire.com/bosch-relays.htm didn't have this part #). If it isn't the relays, at least I'll have a few spares.

    Anyway, hopefully I can fix it tonight.

    Thanks again
     
  7. To remove this ad click here.

  8. Drew Altemara

    Drew Altemara Formula 3

    Feb 11, 2002
    1,425
    Tuscaloosa, AL
    Full Name:
    Drew Altemara
    Before I did anything I would check the fuse; I believe it is common to both lifting motors. Next I would rotate the realys, especially the one "relay for head lamp lifting motor" and see if you get a change.

    Also the wiring on most of these cars runs to the front right head lamp motor and from there to the left hand side lifting motor.

    The problem could also be in the stalk.

    This thread may help also: http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/112/306948.html

    Drew Altemara
     
  9. Chiaro_Slag

    Chiaro_Slag F1 Veteran

    Oct 31, 2003
    7,731
    CA
    Full Name:
    Jerry
    I didn't see a fuse for the motor, checking again, the # 1 fuse is called :

    Electric motor for high/low beams - R.H. Heater

    Is that the fuse you are thinking of? I'll check it out.

    I'm thinking it's not the stalk since the lights come on, just not pop up, would you agree?

    I'll try the relays with the new ones in a few days.

    Thanks Drew
     
  10. Drew Altemara

    Drew Altemara Formula 3

    Feb 11, 2002
    1,425
    Tuscaloosa, AL
    Full Name:
    Drew Altemara
    I think you have the right fuse. Rotate it with another fuse of the same amperage.

    If the lights go on, yes it may not be the stalk and probably is not; just a guess.

    I would rotate the relays now. Just replace the lifting motor relay with a similar one from the relay pannel. I assume here that there is a similar relay plugged into another circuit but maybe not. If so, give it a try.

    If all this fails, do the diode test as described in the link.

    Good luck,

    Drew
     
  11. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Miami 2018 Owner

    Dec 1, 2000
    53,849
    Southlake, TX
    Full Name:
    Rob Lay
    Umm, I ain't techncial, so I'll stay out of your conversation, but 9 times out of 10 on the 328 this is just because the light lever got knocked either up or down, I can't remember. When centered you twist the lever and the lights come on and pop up. When not in the centered position, when you twist they just come on, but not pop up.

    Took me about 30 minutes to figure out first time it happened, really a bad design.
     
  12. To remove this ad click here.

  13. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 6, 2002
    75,511
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    You can swap the relays around, or you can tap on them LIGHTLY with the handle of your Technical Ferrari screwdriver.

    From the official tool kit, of course.

    When mine did this, we found a bad ground connection at the motor. HTH
     
  14. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 6, 2002
    75,511
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    On the 308, twisting it brings them ON and UP. Down on the stalk is HIGH Beam.
     
  15. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    May 29, 2001
    17,485
    USA
    Slag,
    my understanding of the circuit, is that the "headlights lifting motor relay" actually drives (powers) the other two (left/right) headlight motor relays. If both lights are not coming up, then this is probably the most likely failed relay(seems doubtful the left/right relays would simultaneously fail) So swap the left then the right relays with the "headlights lifting motor relay" and see if you can get one of the lights to come up.

    But of course, it could be many other things as well; as suggested by others....
     
  16. Chiaro_Slag

    Chiaro_Slag F1 Veteran

    Oct 31, 2003
    7,731
    CA
    Full Name:
    Jerry
    Ok, I was being lazy about switching the relays because they are a bit hard to persuade coming out of there. :) I'll man up and give it a try tonight.
     
  17. Throttleman

    Throttleman Formula Junior

    Sep 26, 2003
    339
    Pasadena,CA
    Full Name:
    Jay Ablett
    Let me know if you need a wing man for some electrical work on that beauty. I am sure I could muster an excuse to work on her again. Cheers, Jay.
     
  18. Chiaro_Slag

    Chiaro_Slag F1 Veteran

    Oct 31, 2003
    7,731
    CA
    Full Name:
    Jerry
    Jay-

    Last night I switched the relays around with no luck. I also unplugged the headlamp motors & turned the knobs to lift the headlights manually. I probably need some help to find the problem if you got some time....

    You going to CC on Saturday?
     
  19. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Miami 2018 Owner

    Dec 1, 2000
    53,849
    Southlake, TX
    Full Name:
    Rob Lay
    Have you read my post yet and tried that before tearing anything else up? I swear, 9 times out of 10 it's this.
     
  20. Chiaro_Slag

    Chiaro_Slag F1 Veteran

    Oct 31, 2003
    7,731
    CA
    Full Name:
    Jerry
    I'll give it a try - What do you mean by not being centered - Do you mean in relation to towards & away from you?

    Thanks
     
  21. Drew Altemara

    Drew Altemara Formula 3

    Feb 11, 2002
    1,425
    Tuscaloosa, AL
    Full Name:
    Drew Altemara
    The stalk is a 3 position switch. Up, center, down.

    Put the key in the ignition. Turn to the garage/accessory position. Push the stalk all the way down towards the floor. Rotate the knob forward (counterclockwise if you are looking at it from the driver's side door.)

    See if this gets it.

    Rob is just trying to make sure it is not operator error.

    Drew
     
  22. Chiaro_Slag

    Chiaro_Slag F1 Veteran

    Oct 31, 2003
    7,731
    CA
    Full Name:
    Jerry
    lol, no that's not it. :)
     
  23. Chiaro_Slag

    Chiaro_Slag F1 Veteran

    Oct 31, 2003
    7,731
    CA
    Full Name:
    Jerry
    #20 Chiaro_Slag, Feb 15, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Just wanted to update this topic.

    I went over to the Master mechanics today (Rick - Who is on this board as zsnnf). After testing the voltage in the various relays, we couldn't find the problem. After we consulted the Owner's manual again, there was one more relay I hadn't seen before (the one color red on the below picture - damn thing is not visible without taking the fuse panel out). So there are 4 relays I can see for the lifting motor (not sure why so many are needed!) :

    Headlight lifting motor
    LH Headlight Lifting Motor
    RH Headlight Lifting Motor
    Headlight Lifting Motor (Low Beam) - The one colored red

    The relay was good in the slot, but the connection was not good. When Rick held the relay in a certain way, the headlights would come up.

    We took the fuse panel out and took the back panel out of it. Turns out the fuse panel is a big circuit board. One pin for this relay seemed a little loose. We tightened the clamp on the pin & it seems to hold the relay in a little better. Rick also cleaned the board up with some WD-40.

    The headlights are working for now. So I'm not sure if the problem is completely fixed or if it may start acting up again. I'm going to call up my mechanic tomorrow to see if he has any thoughts.

    After we put it all back together we took the 328 out for a spin & I let Rick drive to see what a car is like without those monstrous F40 turbos. I think he missed the turbos.

    Thanks again Rick for spending a few hours with me - Very nice of you! :)

    If we didn't permanently fix the problem, at least we figured out where the weak link is. Maybe my mechanic will know if I can do something more to make sure it never happens again or if the relay board needs to be replaced - I just looked on Ferrari of UK and they look to be about $600 - So I'm hoping it ain't that!
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  24. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    May 29, 2001
    17,485
    USA
    Interesting, and not uncommon problem. If you search the old archives, there was a member here that redid his entire circuit board with hardwire. I think it took him an entire weekend to disassemble, document then wire up. But I'm sure the wire is a much more reliable and better conductor than those circuit boards...

    IIRC there are more than one, and maybe up to three of them in there, layered on top of each other.
     
  25. Drew Altemara

    Drew Altemara Formula 3

    Feb 11, 2002
    1,425
    Tuscaloosa, AL
    Full Name:
    Drew Altemara
    Glad you found the problem. Sometimes you have to whip these cars into submission.

    Drew
     
  26. Chiaro_Slag

    Chiaro_Slag F1 Veteran

    Oct 31, 2003
    7,731
    CA
    Full Name:
    Jerry
    Yes, it looked like 4 layers of thin green plastic.
     
  27. ChrisfromRI

    ChrisfromRI Karting

    Jan 28, 2003
    230
    Foster, RI
    Full Name:
    Chris F
    Thankfully in this case Ferrari allowed a provision to manually turn a couple of knobs to raise the headlights in the event the motors don't raise them.

    Kind Regards, Chris
     
  28. Throttleman

    Throttleman Formula Junior

    Sep 26, 2003
    339
    Pasadena,CA
    Full Name:
    Jay Ablett
    I am glad Rick was able to give you a hand with his volt meter. This approach is how I would have tackled it. Not entirely solved but now things function and you have worked it down to the weak link. Let's hope that the vibration from the recent canyon drive weakened a contact point and is now improved. This "ruling things out" method is what automobilia is all about. This is why learning to use/read the volt meter is important as I mentioned in a much earlier post.

    Big shout out to Rick- you're still the man.

    -Jay.
     

Share This Page