328 HOT START DIFFICULTIES | FerrariChat

328 HOT START DIFFICULTIES

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by marklintott, Mar 6, 2007.

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  1. marklintott

    marklintott Formula Junior
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    Jul 13, 2005
    570
    Taipei Taiwan / Somerset UK
    Full Name:
    Mark Lintott
    Hi, I posted recently re rough running etc which seems to have been resolved now thru' tidying up connections to the ECU and re wiring/replacing the cat control unit. However I'm still left with a problem with hot starting.

    Re-starting quickly (say within 5 mins) when the engine is hot is no problem but anything longer like 10 mins up to about 1 hour is a pain in the *rse. It feels like a fuel problem but I don't really know where to start. Pumping the gas pedal seems to make a difference although this makes no sense with the FI. Is it possible fuel pressure is being "leaked away" when its hot leaving it very lean for the re start? Or are there vacuum lines related to hot start etc that could be leaking pressure?

    When it does re start it chugs a bit until all cylinders kick in and then it runs fine. Actually its running the best since I've had the car but this hot start thing is a pain.

    Any input would be great. Thanks in advance


    Mark

    Taiwan/UK
    1988 328 GTS
     
  2. KENCO

    KENCO Formula 3

    Nov 1, 2006
    2,396
    FL
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    KJG
    It is probably the fuel acumulator, leaking down , just like you believe. Its design is to hold fuel pressure for a period of time to facilitate hot starts.
     
  3. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Nine Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 10, 2005
    99,176
    Mount Isa, Australia
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    Pap
    Yeah either that or just a battery on the way out or your starter motor ;)

    Good to hear it's running good also :)
     
  4. marklintott

    marklintott Formula Junior
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    Jul 13, 2005
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    Mark Lintott
    Kenco - thanks for the reply. Sounds like an answer that fits the symptoms quite well. Where can I find the fuel accumulator and is there a method of testing it before I ditch it?

    Pap348 - The motor turns over fine and for quite some time to get it started so I think the battery is ok. I have noticed that after a few goes trying to start the starter motor seems to "jam" or just dies - not even the click of the solenoid which makes me think there might be a loose connection or perhaps the solonoid is on the way out. Think this is unrelated to my original post though.

    Thanks for the responses though - any further help on the accumulator would be much appeciated.

    Cheers

    Mark
    Taiwan/UK
    1988 328 GTS
     
  5. eulk328

    eulk328 F1 Rookie

    Feb 18, 2005
    2,800
    Full Name:
    F683
    I agree with KENCO. I had to change mine about 7 years ago when I bought the car. There was a bit of a fuel smell. As I recall there is a diaphram inside and this can start to leak. The fuel then gets to the other side of the diaphram and leaks out of a small metal tube (on the accumulator) pointed towards the ground. I think the whole purpose of the little tube is to let you know the diaphram is ruptured by leaking some fuel. Maybe also to allow atomospheric pressure on that side of the diaphram.

    It's located near the left-hand side (as you're sitting in the car) fuel tank near the firewall, down low. It's olive drab in color and is a Bosch part. I took the part number off the accumulator and bought a new one for about one third the Ferrari price (no yellow box with prancing horses :-( It's a common part and not specific to Ferrari. Maybe it was about $100 at the time. I don't know exactly how you would test it but if any fuel is coming out of it and the hose connections are tight then it needs to be replaced.

    Be careful not to overheat your starter motor by trying too many times or for too long to start it!

    Erich
    1988 GTS
    30,000km.

     
  6. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,040
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
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    Steve Magnusson
    IF the supply fuel pressure dropping is the root cause of your hot restart-after-a-bit problem, I'd put a higher probabilitly on the check valve at the fuel pump outlet not sealing well. It's not impossible that the accumulator is the trouble (i.e., could be "frozen" so not really doing what it should be doing), but for them to "leak down" usually requires that fuel leak out -- which is usually noticeable (so that's the first check as Erich suggested -- is there any fuel dampness/wetness at the accumulator?).

    Anyway, just wanted to suggest that you measure the supply fuel pressure (at the fuel distributor) after shutoff to see if it's dropping too quickly (and really is the cause of the restart problem). Some Volvo and Mercedes of the same era used the same Bosch CIS system so you don't necessarily need a Ferrari shop -- you need a "K-Jetronic shop". Just tell them that you "have a K-Jetronic fuel injection system and would like to get the supply fuel pressure measured for running and after shutoff" -- if they know K-Jet, they'll understand exactly what you want (easy work requiring little disassembly -- 1 hour labor charge would be more than enough).
     
  7. hardtop

    hardtop F1 World Champ

    Jan 31, 2002
    11,285
    Colorado
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    Dave
    Another possibility I have seen is leaking fuel injectors that don't close all the way when shut off. I had these same symptoms on a QV and that was the problem. Having a few cylinders misfire for a bit after finally starting is a classic symptom of this. Holding the throttle half way open helped I assume because there was too much fuel. Cold starts were always fine.

    Dave
     
  8. KENCO

    KENCO Formula 3

    Nov 1, 2006
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    FL
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    KJG
    #8 KENCO, Mar 6, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Listen to 91TR, he is the god of bosch fuel injection. If you do see or smell gas, look for a part that looks like this, with fuel lines going to it. You can get it from Ricambi America $153.00
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  9. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 29, 2001
    17,913
    USA
    As 91TR said, get a check valve too, they are cheaper...do them both. If you still have a problem, have the pressures checked. If you have the original fuel injectors, they are probably leaking. Mine were on my 1987 328 GTS...
     
  10. marklintott

    marklintott Formula Junior
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    Jul 13, 2005
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    Taipei Taiwan / Somerset UK
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    Mark Lintott
    Thanks again everyone - all sounds like good advice.

    The car has sat around for a lot of its recent life so I expect things like this to come up - seals/diaphrams etc. I've ordered both an accumulator and a check valve with all gaskets etc from Eurospares. Relatively low cost items so I figure I'll sort these out and then if the problem persists try to get the system checked by a local jetronic place. Trouble is my Chinese doesn't quite stretch to explaining the problems to a Merc garage and Bosch themselves have shown little or no interest in diagnosing it themselves.

    hardtop - the injectors were checked and seals etc replaced by the local Fcar main dealer some time ago so although the symptoms you describe match mine I don't think the injectors are at fault here.

    Thanks for the help again - I'll post back results once I've got these parts fitted up.

    Cheers

    Mark
    Taiwan/UK
    1988 328 GTS
     
  11. marklintott

    marklintott Formula Junior
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    Jul 13, 2005
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    Mark Lintott
    Followed the advice above and ordered a new accumulator and non return valve from Eurospares - excellent service by the way.

    Checked the vent hose from the accumulator and it had fuel in it making me hopeful of a fix in sight. Getting the thing out is a b**ch but easier if you follow the advice to remove the whole pump/accumulator assembly on its mounting plate.

    Replaced the ACC and NRV with new copper washers too. Cleaned it all up and re installed. Cleaned the spilt fuel from the floor and my hair and re started. It was sluggish at first but after a few re starts and a couple of miles use it settled down and starts easily from warm / hot / cold etc without any throttle at all.

    Great fix thanks everyone for the help.

    Mark

    Taiwan/UK
    1988 328 GTS
     
  12. KENCO

    KENCO Formula 3

    Nov 1, 2006
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    KJG
    Great! Nice to see that your work paid off. I hate replacing parts and spending money when you dont have to!
     
  13. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    22,352
    Indian Wells, California
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    Jon
    Timely thread - just replaced the fuel accumulator on my '87. I would describe it as a 'warm start' problem only.
     
  14. marklintott

    marklintott Formula Junior
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    Jul 13, 2005
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    Mark Lintott
    I agree - hot start is misleading - when its really hot it starts right up. When its warm its a non starter or embarrasing starter when you're out and about and your flashy italian car doesn't start to the amusement of all the passers by of course!

    Cheers

    Mark

    Taiwan/UK
    1988 328 GTS
     
  15. not2shabbe

    not2shabbe Rookie

    Sep 29, 2010
    4
    TEXAS where else...
    was having the restart problem and no fuel leaking out of accumulator , replaced and fixed the problem
     
  16. not2shabbe

    not2shabbe Rookie

    Sep 29, 2010
    4
    TEXAS where else...
    was having the restart problem and no fuel leaking out of accumulator , replaced and fixed the problem
     
  17. Braintreebesttaxi

    Feb 3, 2017
    48
    Hingham Massachusett
    Full Name:
    Greg
    I agree
     

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