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328 no start

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by vikel, Jun 19, 2005.

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  1. vikel

    vikel Rookie

    Dec 4, 2003
    12
    Crofton, Maryland
    Full Name:
    James V. Cunningham
    #1 vikel, Jun 19, 2005
    My 1987 328 has been having electrical gremlins. The car will turn over but but not start. Its obvious that the fuel pump is not working. I have replaced both relays and the fuse. It does start sometimes so I know that the relays are working as well as the fuse. This happens when the car is hot or cold. My mechanic found a used fuse panel and installed it and it seemed that it was fixed but after just two days, the same symptoms. I was even driving the car once and it just cut off. I was sitting beside the road and took out the relays and put them back in and after several tries, it started back up. I immediately drove home. There seems to be a short somewhere. I even tried jumping the terminals at the relay box and did not get the fuel pump to run. And then, all of a sudden, it will start. I am afraid to drive the car when I do get it started for fear of it turning off or getting stranded somewhere. I don't know where to start to look now. This just started about 2 months ago. Any suggestions. Another problem that I am having is that the car will backfire when I turn it off when its hot. If I rev up the engine as I turn it off, the backfire will not occur.
     
  2. DGS

    DGS Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    May 27, 2003
    71,863
    MidTN
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    DGS
    #2 DGS, Jun 19, 2005
    Have you checked the "safety switch" at the AFM? It's possible that your AFM metering plate may be out of adjustment, causing the safety switch to turn off your fuel pump. That might account for a mixture error too, although popping on shutdown isn't too unusual.
     
  3. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,794
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
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    Steve Magnusson
    #3 Steve Magnusson, Jun 19, 2005
    You don't have a "short" -- you have an intermittent "open" in one of the (high-current) connections (if it isn't the fuel pump itself).

    Can you describe more exactly your actions for "I even tried jumping the terminals at the relay box and did not get the fuel pump to run"?

    Also, when the car "cut-out" did everything die (e.g., even the dash lights/gauges) or just the engine?

    Have you tried swapping relays (of the same number please :)) into the U, R, and S positions?
     
  4. vikel

    vikel Rookie

    Dec 4, 2003
    12
    Crofton, Maryland
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    James V. Cunningham
    #4 vikel, Jun 19, 2005
    Just the engine cut out, I think. I did not notice whether everything else went out. I jumpered the relay 101 at the fuel pump starter and the relay 115 at the fuel pump. I jumpered the horizontall top pin with the vertical bottom pin. I did try switching relays and even purchased new relays for both the fuel pump starter and the fuel pump. I had been driving the car without it cutting off until yesterday when it cut off. That was the first time that that had happened. It seems so strange. I could go out to the garage right now and it will strat with no problem. I would turn it off and try restarting and it might start again. Then, for no apparent reason, it will not start. Certainly vibrations did not occur while the car is just standing still.
     
  5. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,794
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
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    Steve Magnusson
    #5 Steve Magnusson, Jun 19, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    You've lost me a little in your description. If you removed the R relay (...113 type) and jumpered from the 30 terminal to the 87 terminal, as in the attached jpeg, and the fuel pump didn't run, you should confirm/deny if the 30 terminal (or the 87 terminal) is at +12V (with the jumper in place); if so, you'd move downstream to the w connector and measure the P (beige) wire terminal -- if that goes +12V, you'd move to measuring at the "+" terminal at the fuel pump electric motor -- if that goes +12V and the fuel pump doesn't run = bad pump or ground. If you follow this chain you either get to the pump or will find where the +12V is broken.

    Have you inspected the electrical connections (including ground) at the fuel pump?

    Are you sure it can't be a pump problem?
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  6. carlrose

    carlrose Formula Junior

    Nov 25, 2003
    324
    #6 carlrose, Jun 19, 2005
    Hi Mr. Cunningham,

    In the spirit of comprehensively running down this problem, how have you zeroed in on the FI as the culprit? (i.e. when car will crank but not start have you verified spark at plug/fuel spray from an injector?) When removing the safety switch from the air meter & turning key to "run", can you hear fuel pump?

    :) Carl
     
  7. vikel

    vikel Rookie

    Dec 4, 2003
    12
    Crofton, Maryland
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    James V. Cunningham
    #7 vikel, Jun 20, 2005
    The fuel pump does not run when I jumper the relay nor does it run when I disconnect the blue headed saftey plug. When it does start, everything works. There seems to be some type of short at the fuel pump which intermittely works. How do I check the connections at the fuel pump?
     
  8. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,794
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    #8 Steve Magnusson, Jun 20, 2005
    Just check that they're clean, tight, and in good condition (the two at the fuel pump and where the N (black) ground wire hooks to the chassis). When you jumper the R relay (or do the "unplug safety switch + key on" method), the voltage between the two terminals at the fuel pump should be 12V:

    If it is 12V and the pump doesn't run = bad pump (and you might tap the pump body gently with something to see if it starts)

    If it isn't 12V = continuity problem from R relay to pump (in the chain previously described)

    (The action of starter motor cranking does "shake" everything a bit so could explain why somethimes it works, but if the static test is always failing per your report you should be able to find/deduce the trouble spot or item.)
     
  9. danman

    danman Karting

    Mar 31, 2008
    63
    Central NJ
    #9 danman, Jun 8, 2008
    So, did you ever figure this out? I am having the same symptoms.

    Thanks,
    Dan
     
  10. KKRace

    KKRace Formula 3

    Aug 6, 2007
    1,052
    Rockville/Olney MD
    Full Name:
    Kevin
    #10 KKRace, Jun 10, 2008
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2008

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