328 Not Idling | FerrariChat

328 Not Idling

Discussion in '308/328' started by JV's89, Jul 19, 2006.

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  1. JV's89

    JV's89 F1 Veteran
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    Jul 18, 2006
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    John
    While driving yesterday, my car stopped idling. At every red light on the way home I had to re-start the car. Its an '89 328 that seems to be running perfectly well otherwise. Has anyone else experienced this problem before? Would anyone recommend fuel injection cleaner? If so, what brand? Any help would be much appreciated.
     
  2. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Do you mean that the RPM undershoots severely during the decelleration process (like down to 500 RPM) and it stalls, but after you start it back up that it idles perfectly well at ~1000 RPM and has good accelleration?

    I'm a quasi-believer in the Chevron Techron injector cleaner being a good thing for a Bosch CIS system occasionally (but would guess that your problem is not related to "cleanliness" if the behavior is as above).
     
  3. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I've had good results with Techron in my '87. But it has never stalled, only stumbled a bit when cold starting. I'd think your injectors would have to be badly clogged to stall the car.
     
  4. JV's89

    JV's89 F1 Veteran
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    As soon as I lift my foot of the gas the car will idle down to zero (0) at a consistent rate and stall. It really runs perfectly well except for this issue. To keep it running, I have to feather the gas.
     
  5. JV's89

    JV's89 F1 Veteran
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    I just started it for the first time today and it seems ok.
    I will take it out later to see if it happens again. It may need warmed up before the problem will develop.
     
  6. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Thanks for the clarification -- that symptom is a different kettle of fish (and I'll assume it's a US version 328).

    I'd suggest that you first confirm/deny if the K-Jet with Lambda injection system has the +12V power that it needs to work properly. This can be done several ways:

    1. The metering valve (aka frequency valve) should always be "buzzing" whenever the engine is running (see fig 57 on page 66 of your OM). If it's not buzzing/vibrating, that's a sign that you've lost the +12V power.

    2. The two wires at the frequency valve are PN (beige/black) and AG (light blue/yellow) -- the PN wire should be at +12V whenever the engine is running.

    3. The gizmo that provides the +12V power to run the injection system is the "Relay for protection of oxygen sensor system" (item H in Fig 64, page 72). The way this works is that the wire hooked to the 30 terminal should always be +12V (even with the key "off"). When the engine is running the contacts inside this relay should close and connect the +12V on terminal 30 over to the wires connected to terminal 87 (i.e., whenever the engine is running, terminal 87 should also be at +12V).

    Just a first suggestion if the problem recurrs.

    Good Hunting!
     
  7. JV's89

    JV's89 F1 Veteran
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    Thanks for the info. If memory serves i had a Freq. valve problem with an 87 a couple of years ago that the dealership fixed.
     
  8. JV's89

    JV's89 F1 Veteran
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    I started and warmed it up today and went about 7 miles and everything seemed ok. After about an hours lunch break I started it and it wanted to stall. I kept it running and by the time I got to the first stop light it was ok again.
    The freq. valve seems to be doing its thing. Could a vacuum leak be the culprit?
     
  9. wolftalk

    wolftalk Formula Junior

    Jan 27, 2004
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    if you just filled up the tank, could be a fuel problem. You'll need to either drain out the fuel, or use it up fast.

    if the car is ok when you keep the throttle a little open, check the throttle microswitch. You can either unplug and contort to probe the switch pins, or you can unbolt the injection ecu plate in the right side of the trunk and test the switch from there.

    if you go for the switch directly, the center pin is common/gnd. When the throttle is closed, you should get zero ohms to the right pin (looking from the passenger side of car), going to infinite when the throttle is barely opened. You'll hear it click. You get zero ohms between center and the left pin at wide-open throttle, but that's not too relevant for your problem. Open/close the trottle a few times. The typical failure is a dirty microswitch inside the unit, and it's not very cleanable. Replacing the part is more reliable.

    if you want to test from the ecu plate, unplug the pink/black wire from the diode (black plastic tube thing) and probe between that wire and ground. Again, zero ohms when throttle closed, infinite when slightly open.

    also, try unplugging the o2 sensor so the car stays in open loop and seeing if that makes a difference.
     
  10. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Phil's given some good suggestions for the next layers of the onion to peel back, but I do want to confirm that your post means that you verified the frequency valve was buzzing during the bad running period?
     
  11. JV's89

    JV's89 F1 Veteran
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    First of all, thank you for all the help - I really appreciate it. Steve, to answer your question, I checked the frequency valve just after starting the car, but before driving it. To be honest, I did not check it after lunch when the problem started again. I guess I assumed all was well because it was working before. Can the frequency valve operate intermitently? (don't you love those kind of problems) As for Phil's initial thoughts on fuel being bad, I buy my fuel at the same place all the time, but that's not to say that they didn't have a bad load. I use it quick so running it out won't be a problem and I can buy fuel somewhere that turns it over pretty quickly. For what its worth, of course I use premium unleaded, but I do buy it at a commercial fueling center that probably doesn't sell very much. (old gas maybe) It sure would be nice if that turned out to be the issue. My gas guage is reading about a quarter tank so unless someone urges me otherwise I'll dilute this gas with some new stuff. I suppose I should also point out that by the time I got home from lunch it seemed to be idling fine again.
     
  12. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    The frequency valve working OK when the engine is running OK is a good sign that the frequency valve itself is OK, but I'd still suggest that you try to confirm/deny if it's buzzing when/if the problem reoccurs. I think it's very unlikely that the frequency valve itself is intermittent, but it is possible that the +12V power to run the FV is the intermittent factor (i.e., a flaky protection relay).

    Good Hunting -- these intermittent Gremlins are the worst!
     
  13. wolftalk

    wolftalk Formula Junior

    Jan 27, 2004
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    someone else in the 3x8 section is currently dealing with a classic problem...water leaking around the antenna - or a bad antenna drain line - winding up getting the injection ecu and associated relay contacts nice and corroded.

    if you haven't already, you probably should unbolt the injection ecu plate and make sure things are dry under it, the ground connection is good, and contacts generally look clean.

    the plate is under the carpet in the right side of the trunk, directly beneath the antenna. The carpet section and a piece of padding lift out, then you remove up to four bolts (10mm, if I remember right). When you turn the plate over, try to avoid stressing the thin goldish-brown wires that are bullet-connecting the exhaust thermocouple to the black exhaust ecu box...they are pretty sturdy, and the bullet connectors would normally separate before you tore the wires out of the ecu...but if you have corrosion, who knows.

    hope that helps. If you don't see anything obvious, I'd leave the plate flipped over and drive around until you get symptoms, then hop out and wiggle things on the plate and connectors to see if the problem disappears.
     

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