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328 Shift Linkage

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by MManzonelli, Apr 6, 2004.

  1. MManzonelli

    MManzonelli Karting

    Nov 4, 2003
    73
    Columbia, IL
    Full Name:
    Mark Manzonelli
    Today while driving my 1986 328, I missed a shift, Now, I cannot get my car in 1st gear and reverse is very difficult. It is not the clutch as I have the same problem if the car is running or not.

    What happened? Did I bend something? Did I just knock it out of adjustment? How do I adjust the linkage? I assume it is all done my taking the transmission pan off and adjusting there.

    Anything else to look for? Possible parts tp replace while I am down there?

    Help appreciated!!!
     
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  3. Nationaltec

    Nationaltec Karting

    Dec 22, 2003
    157
    North County
    Full Name:
    Patrick
    Manz,

    Dont drop the pan just yet, all it takes is two people and a few open-end wrenches. I'd check the manual for the procedure.. but your rotation is slightly off.. There's three pins that line up on the forks ... but if you adjust the linkage too far you'll drop a pin and THEN you'll need to drop the pan.

    I just went through this on Saturday.. It's quite touchy but I'm sure a fellow f-chatter can be more specific than I on this.

    Dont worry just yet..
    Good luck
    Patrick

    Also, Make sure your shift-gate is not worn before attempting the alignment.
     
  4. Peter

    Peter F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 21, 2000
    6,389
    B.C., Canada
    #3 Peter, Apr 7, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I just went through this recently, although my shifting into rev-1st slot got progressively worse, not an instantaneous problem.

    Problem is definitely in the shifter housing, not the transmission (although it would be a good idea to drop the pan for checking selector alignment when finishing work on the shifter).

    Following pics are of my GT4, your 328 will be different but the procedure will be the same:

    1-remove centre console
    2-unbolt shaft from shifter
    3-remove shifter housing - shifter is spring loaded so it will pop up as you unbolt it
    4-the centre-locating spring-loaded plunger was the problem on my car (last pic). It prevented the shift into Rev-1st because the grease was sold old and sticky and the bore of the housing was slightly scuffed/galled because of that. Carefully remove the e-clip and remove the plunger, clean bore and plunger with emery cloth and re-grease. Re-install (helps to hold it in a vice to press the spring & plate in and install the e-clip)
    5-install the shifter housing back into the car and the centre-console

    Try to avoid at all costs removing the little plastic ball joint on the bottom of the shifter stalk (second-to-last pic)... I broke mine :( I epoxied it back together, but it was a problem I could've done without.

    After doing all of this, my shifter works like greased lightning now. The shifter stalk now snaps back to the centre, neutral position in an instant. No snagging or jamming going into the Rev-1st slot, or any other for that matter.
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  5. MManzonelli

    MManzonelli Karting

    Nov 4, 2003
    73
    Columbia, IL
    Full Name:
    Mark Manzonelli
    Thanks guys.....

    Peter, can you get to this from underneath (by removing a panel) or do I have take the console out? I think it is more in my linkage than my shifter, but I cannot say for sure......

    Mark
     
  6. 4re gt4

    4re gt4 Formula 3

    Apr 23, 2002
    2,279
    Roseburg, OR
    Full Name:
    Hans E. Hansen
    Peter has a photo of everything.............
     
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  8. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    10,192
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    Peter

    How hard was it getting the entire console off?

    Nice photos.
     
  9. Peter

    Peter F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 21, 2000
    6,389
    B.C., Canada
    Mark & Mitchell,

    There was no access to the shifter underneath, hence the removal of the console. At least on my GT4...

    I've removed this console before (to fix radio), so this time around, it took me about 45min's to get to the point of the second picture. I had to disconnect the parking brake cable, in order to pull it completely straight up, so I could lift the console up and out.
     
  10. GrigioGuy

    GrigioGuy Splenda Daddy
    Global Moderator Owner

    Nov 26, 2001
    24,118
    E ' ' '/ F
    Full Name:
    Dindu Nuffin

    Nope. On the 328 the console has to come out to get to that area. There's a screw underneath the rocker switches and underneath the ashtray. Don't force anything
     
  11. Rockn_Ferrari

    Rockn_Ferrari Karting

    Dec 11, 2003
    50
    Akron (Montrose), Oh
    Full Name:
    Robert Walker
    #9 Rockn_Ferrari, Jul 10, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Same event as Mark (Manz.). After a sudden missed shift, the shifter will not go into first or reverse.

    This does sound like a rotation issue to me... and it sounds like neither reply is right on.

    The first reply to Mark (from NationalTec) indicates that he probably had this fixed at a shop because he couldn't elaborate. He did mention a rotation issue... but also something about forks. The forks are in the rear and the adjustments for the rotation are up front.

    The second reply from Peter indicates that he fixed his issue that happened over time by rebuilding the shifter.

    I think that this issue is due to a rotation problem. My 328 Workshop Manual (CD-ROM) and my older Ferrari Mondial Workshop Manaual (blue binder) have exactly the same instructions for aligning a shifter after a transmission removal. The last piece of linkage under the console has to be in a horizontal position when the shifter is in second gear (see pic).

    I am hoping that the sudden shift somehow caused the shaft to misalign and that adjusting the lock nuts on the "action sleeve" (5 in the drawing) will re-align the shifter and shaft.

    I'm also hoping that my shifter does not need to be rebuilt as it operated smoothly before the mishap.

    Any comments are appreciated...

    Bob
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  13. Rockn_Ferrari

    Rockn_Ferrari Karting

    Dec 11, 2003
    50
    Akron (Montrose), Oh
    Full Name:
    Robert Walker
    #10 Rockn_Ferrari, Jul 10, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  14. MManzonelli

    MManzonelli Karting

    Nov 4, 2003
    73
    Columbia, IL
    Full Name:
    Mark Manzonelli
    Sorry, I have been on vacation and just received your email. My problem was not in the shifter mechanism though I did rebuild mine just because I was there. Actually very simple and it does smooth up the way the car shifts.

    The problem I had was on the synchronizers themselves. What happens, is when you shift into first, you are also "sliding off" reverse. When you miss the shift to second, you actually banged the "teeth" into reverse which bends them or burrs them or could even break them. In my case, I did not break them but I know I scarred them. (Don't know for sure what I did because I never did pull the transmission). What I did to repair them was "force" the transmission into reverse. Do this from underneath the car by pulling the transmission cover and moving the fork itself. Do not do this at the shifter. Once I had it in reverse, I used a metal bar and hammered the synchronizer ring onto the gear hoping to smooth out the teeth. It worked to an extent. I could get it into gear (via the shifter) . After that, what I did was drive around in first gear and trail the throttle. That is rev it up in first gear and then let go. (Do not shift). Neighbors thought I was crazy but this helped "set" the teeth. It got better. And it has gotten better to a point I don't think I have any problem what so ever. It will continue to get better the more I drive the car.(and quit missing shifts!!
    )
    What did this cost me? About 2 hours time and some transmission fluid. BTW, when I did change the fluid, I fund no large parts so I believe all my teeth are intact. Actually the trans looked very good.

    If anyone wants to contact me about this feel free to call at 314-249-5085.

    Mark Manzonelli

    P.S. My car has never seen the dealer or service garage while in my possesion and hopefully never will.
     
  15. DavidDriver

    DavidDriver F1 Rookie
    Owner

    May 9, 2006
    4,323
    NotInLA
    Full Name:
    David Driver
    #12 DavidDriver, May 27, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I know this is an old thread, but perhaps someone is still subscribed to it, and is able to offer some advice.

    My '75 GT4 does NOT assemble like the one in the picture.

    I too have the parts diagram, and after reading this thread and examining the parts diagram I figured this would be an easy job. Give me a chance to see what's wrong with my radio, and make my shifting a whole lot more like my friends Mondial QV. And I'm still hopeful.

    Mine looks like the picture below. Very similar. Except the spring that brings the shifter to verticle is on top of the ball, inside the upper portion of the case. The wide end of the spring goes on the bottom.

    Assemble as follows:

    1) Slide the spring down the shift lever until it is at the bottom of the case.
    2) Slide a washer down on top of the spring.
    3) Slide the snap ring down on top of the washer.
    4) Depress the spring below the snap-ring grove in the shift lever
    5) Attach the snap-ring.

    Actual experience:

    1) Check
    2) Check
    3) Check
    4) check (screwdriver outta do the trick)
    5..... Dang!
    4) ch.... dang, it slipped! (open end wrench)
    4) check
    5) Oh damn, where's the snapring?
    4) check... (two open end wrenches)
    4) Check... (needle nose pliers)

    Hey! Don't they make a tool for this????


    Needle nose pliers with a curved end? Anybody know?
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  16. Cyclocharger

    Cyclocharger Rookie

    May 24, 2006
    27
    St. Petersburg, Fl.
    Full Name:
    David Reynard
    Mark I had the same problem and I was just about to go in and look around. Fast shifting even granny shifting became difficult. I checked with my cousin " a world class Ferrari mech " and he told me to do a tranny oil change with BG ultraguard " bright lime green" WOW all back to normal and I beleive I recovered about 40hp. Who would have thunk. My old Shell Rotax came out looking unused with no debris at all. My cousin believes the shell fluids gums up the syncros. Instant cure for me. Good Luck.
     
  17. Artvonne

    Artvonne F1 Veteran

    Oct 29, 2004
    5,379
    NWA
    Full Name:
    Paul
    I am really confused right now, so maybe someone can help me find my sanity. Took the car out for a spin last evening, carbs all smoothed out, motor purrs. mmmmmmmmm. When I was backing out of the garage I gnashed reverse some, no biggie. I went into town, drove up and down some hills, went out on the highway and come down to the main traffic light, enter the left turn lane and wait. Green arrow, select fist gear, ease out the clu....ease out the....try moving shifter forward and back to first, feels kinda disconnected, ease out clutch and im standing still. Oh oh, I figure the link adjuster came undone, cool, I find I have third, whip a Uie and drive home without changing gears. Glad the motor runs really good now so I can get it going in third.

    Back in the batcave I jack her up, and with wrenches in hand go after the offending loose adjuster. Nope, its new girlfriend tight, not loose there, has to be inside the gearbox? So now I am taking off the gearbox cover I was thinking of taking off when I just had the freaking oil pan off three days ago, when I could have changed the shift shaft O-rings (while I was in there). Oh well. So, the pans off, lets looky what was loose. NOTHING IS LOOSE!!!

    I pulled the shifter out of third to neutral, and magic marked the 1/R shift rod, then moved the lever to see if the rod slipped any. Nope. I pull it into first and it clicks in nice as can be, just like it always did. WTH. Okay, I get a wrench on the clamp bolts and crank on them a bit, they crack a little tighter but they were tight already. Tighter than the 18 ft.lb's the manual calls for. So is the clamp bolt on the shifter rod. So was this some twilight zone event or was my shifter actually slipping?

    The only thing I can come up with is it was somehow loose when hot, but now when cooled down its tight as it ever was. I got some crank on the pinch bolts, dont really want to crank em down to awful tight, but curious if anyone has had any simular experience. I have the pan off right now so I can re-tourque them if someone has a better idea on this. I just dont want to put it back together yet until I feel comfortable I have the situation handled. What is interesting is that I have read several threads where different individuals have had the shift linkage in the gearbox slip after being on the track for a while, so maybe it is a heat issue? maybe they need to be heated up some before we torque them down??
     
  18. Artvonne

    Artvonne F1 Veteran

    Oct 29, 2004
    5,379
    NWA
    Full Name:
    Paul
    No one answered yet, so I just went ahead and put the cover back on and filled it back up with lube. I didnt try tightening the bolts any more than I did initially, they are pretty tight. One thing I thought of, is if I have any further trouble, to rough up the shaft in the areas where the forks and levers are situated on the shafts. I also will shift the car with a bit less enthusiasm. No since pushing it on a 30 year old car. One other thought I did have though, is heating the forks or levers up to 200 degrees or so and then retorquing the bolts.
     

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