There have been many postings on this topic but my issue was different enough to warrant a new thread. First, I had a sudden problem shifting. During a rather spirited shift into second on a relatively cold engine it seemed like I hit a brick wall. Could have been the shift gate, as I was watching the tach or the road in front of me. Not sure why I missed second... other than the fact that this is a Ferrari and that seems pretty common. Now I guess I believe it. The symptoms were a grinding noise in Reverse and 1st (so I chose not to force it or drive it), wouldn't go all the way into 2nd or 3rd... and 4th and 5th seemed fine. I limped home in 4th. From the prior postings, I assumed that is was a shift linkage misalignment issue... and probably a rotation issue (twist in the linkage). I assume that because that was what I wanted the issue to be... or a shifter issue. I didnt want to have gearbox issues. This thread seemed like the same problem... but replies varied from rebuilding the shifter to looking in the gearbox. http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13791 It helped quite a bit that Mark Manzonelli replied to an e-mail and filled in the blanks. I didn't quite have the same issue but he helped out a lot. Thanks Mark! First, I removed the console... not exactly a 5-minute task... but I need to run speaker wires under it anyway. Everything looked good... no misalignment and no slop in the shaft. Next, I removed the rear wheel and fender well on the driver's side to get at the gearbox. This needs to be done in my case for some extra ground clearance (as I used 2 jacks and a jack stand to support the car jack stand for safety)... and it needed to be done to change out ALL of the gearbox oil. Then I removed the gearbox drain plug, drained the oil, and removed the pan. I got a gasket from Ferrari of Washington on my way to the airport last night. Nice dealership... lots of race involvement. Makes you feel good when the mechanics do race cars. The oil coming out was clean smelled like hell so I assumed that it was synthetic but it was clean and I didnt see any gear parts coming out. Thats always a good thing. Next I removed the pan a little gunked up on the bottom, bit only one miniscule metal flake about the size of real small metalflake. No gear parts. And the gears and synchros looked new. Whew! Next I cranked the car up a few notches and slid farther underneath. Both drivers side tires are way off the garage floor. I looked at the shifter linkage. I had to use a mirror and a digital camera to see the last joint in the shift linkage and it was NOT level with the shifter in 2nd. Another good sign. I loosened the shift alignment parts and followed the instructions in the service manual. I straightened out the joint made it level and tightened it a little. I asked my wife to shift through the gears first time in her life that she has shifted a manual shift car and I watched what was happening in the gearbox. Although it looks possible to adjust the linkage to level without dropping the gearbox pan, theres not a lot of room for error in there. I had to loosen the joint again and move it slightly so that the gears engaged properly. Then I tightened everything down. It seems to work OK, but there is still a little bit of friction in reverse and 1st so I may mess with the linkage again tomorrow or rebuild the shifter. Ill also fill it up with Redline or Mobile 1 gearbox oil. Hopefully, that will do the trick. Cant wait to get a lift but getting the car back on the road takes priority right now. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
To set up the internal selectors relative to each other, you need to have the detent balls and springs in place to ensure correct alignment. I have a simple tool that holds all the balls and springs while I check and make adjustements. I recently had a car that had a "rotation", but also had a slipped/loose 4th/5th selector fork, so even though I fixed the latest problem I still had to drop the pan to sweeten the 4th/5th shift properly. It's quite easy to diagnose from outside...just observe the travel of the lever up the gate slot in every gear...it should be totally symmetrical in every axis. If, for example, it is even between 2nd/3rd but goes further up the 4th slot and less up the 5th slot, then you will need to drop the pan to adjust the selector forks. I also find that more often than not, the spring washer on the selctor bolt is broken or breaks as I loosen it, so be ready with new ones, or better still, some belleville washers.
thank you! thank you ! thank you! for this thread. i am wondering how much of my " syncro" problem is in the linkage. pics are priceless, thanks!!! michael
The Service Manual mentions tool AV-858 to handle keeping the balls sprung against the gear shafts. Maybe that's your simple tool... but my tool AV-858 is probably simpler than yours... as it involved wire ties and wooden blocks. I think that I understand the concept of the linkage inside of the gearbox now. Not claiming to be an expert yet... but starting to understand. If you disconnect or loosen the linkage before the gearbox, you can move the end of the shifter shaft out of the way to revel the three "bilanciere" parts (Babelfish says "balance", but I'll call them F90L for "Funky 90-degree levers). Balance does not appear to fit the intent of these lever-looking parts. Note in the photo that with this severe angle, the shifter would be pointing towards the passenger door if the linkage was tightened. Image Unavailable, Please Login
It's these three F90Ls that move "forcellino commando velocita" (Let's call these 90Cs - for 90-degree castings/clamps that move the fork shaft). As you can see in this shot, the middle F90L has been moved towards the front of the car (gearshift straight up - and in back of center) or 3rd gear starting to be engaged. What you cannot see is that all of the shifter shaft joints are in a horizontal position. After you have fooled with the gearbox for a while... maybe along while for some of us... you start to get a good "feeling" of what's going on inside of the gearbox from the driver's seat. I also have a good feeling about what's going on back there when you get stuck in reverse... as I managed that a couple of times. You also get a general idea of how the shifter, shaft and shift gate all work together. I don't think that I'll be driving this car without the gate in place. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Is there anything that you can do before installing the pan and filling it with gearbox oil to make sure that everything is going to be OK?
yes...with the detent tool or whatever you have in place, simply get an assistant to go through the gears while you observe and adjust the forks. Take care to note the lever travel fore and aft and adjust either the main linkage or whichever fork is out. Then remove the lever gate, put it in 3rd and rock the lever side to side...it should rock the same amount each way to ensure the rotational adjustment is bang on...if it's not you can "miss" the selector and get nothing...or you could select 2nd instead of reverse, which is always fun... When it's all tight, check it again and only then put the pan on.
My 328 seems to be difficult to get into reverse gear without crunching (all other gears seems fine) is there an adjustment I can make ? and where can I get those details ? And I'm curious as to why any adjustments are needed, do the forks move indicating the bolts loosen with use ??
no. Crunching is not caused by adjustment for any gear. You will have a clutch dragging problem most likely.. possibly a sticky spigot bearing (input shaft in back of crank). Try jacking the rear wheels off the ground, then running the engine and select any gear with the clutch pressed and handbrake off. The wheels may jerk momentarily, but should not turn...if they do, your clutch is dragging. You may not notice in in other gears as the synchros will mask it to an extent.
There's a slight delay in getting the gearbox back together as I'm not home. But... I thought that I would comment on the job anyay. After spending some considerable time messing with the linkage and the shifter and the gearbox, you get a good appreciation of a decent Ferrari mechanic. This job is very doable for most of us, but there is an art to adjusting the linkage so that the gearshift and the gearbox are in harmony. Probably, any decent Ferrari mechaninc has a good feel for what's going n in the gearbox and can do this job in minutes. I worked on putting the gearshift in second, loosening the shifter linkage, and feeling the gears. If you twist the linkage slightly out of horizontal, you can feel the gearshift shaft on moving against the three levers on the inside. And you can feel when the gears start to engage. If you get a good feeling for this, you could probably do it again without dropping the pan. The first time that I tried to tighten the linkage on feel, the shifter was in second and the gearbox was in fourth. But... that was only the first time. You can cheat by looking at the linkage... and the making sure that the last universal joint is horizontal in second. If you start to engage the gears by slightly pushing the shaft into the gearbox or pulling it out... then you can twist the shaft slightly back and forth... hitting the other levers on the inside. Just feel for the middle and tighten up the linkage. At the same time, you need to adjust the travel of the linkage (i.e., the length of the linkage). This is done my pushing the linkage all of the way in (2nd gear engaged) and pulling it out (third gear engaged) and checking the shifter position for uniform meovment. The final step is what FerrariFixer mentions above... checking the movement of the fork shafts with the detent ball bearings and springs in place. I'll wrap up this weekend... and if the linkage ever gets whacked out of retation again, I'll correct it without dropping the pan. If you are willing to put enough effort into adjusting the linkage, you can consider this just slightly more involved than changing the oil or sparkplugs. I'll post the final pics when I'm done.
has anybody try this DELRIN MAT on the last joint befor the gear box the delrin is to replase the bushing on the last joint this is from www.durable 1.com life time??? any coments???
I had the same problem, although intermittently, and it was diagnosed as a shift shaft bushing. $1000 job, at the dealer. It was only occasionally, though, tough to get into first if it was cold - sometimes it would go in, but when I went to go - nothing, so I'd just use second and then it would be fine. And, sometimes reverse would not go in - it would grind. If I shut it off, put it in first, and started it, no problem. So, I had the work done - and it did the exact same thing. They then diagnosed it as a possible bur on the pilot shaft bushing, that was preventing the driveshaft from stopping spinning when the clutch was engaged. So, now, and they were going to give me an allowance for the previous work that didn't solve the problem, I had that done. Turned out to be "none of the above". It was the pressure plate (ten years old, 40k miles since last replaced) that had sort of "collapsed" and wasn't allowing the clutch to release completely. That's why the synchro gears were fine, but not so, reverse. So, one new clutch, pressure plate, etc,. later, all was well.
A client is having issues with his 3.2 Mondial's shifting into Reverse and first. He say's 1st has developed a feeling similar to having a reverse detent. To move into 1st he must push the lever down quite hard for the lever to be moved into 1st gear...but then there's no guarantee it'll actually engage. He say's the lever moves fully into position and feels normal, but 1st and reverse are haphazard in engagement. I'm planning to have a look next week, but tend to thing it's a selector fork issue...loose lock screw or bent fork. Has anyone else experienced, or is familiar with this problem?
Couldn't you find a more recent thread? Btw, if you plan on fixin' your client's Ferrari then consider the Shift Detent Tool. https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/issue-when-shifting-in-1st.520298/
So far, you're at basic diag. Pull the gearbox pan, shift through the sequence, and observe. All confirm no problems at the lever/gate itself.
