328 Starting -- or not: Does this sound familiar? | FerrariChat

328 Starting -- or not: Does this sound familiar?

Discussion in '308/328' started by DGS, Aug 25, 2015.

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  1. DGS

    DGS Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    May 27, 2003
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    Okay, this is odd:

    Friday, I went to drive the 328 to the office: key on, lights indicator, buzzer, etc.
    Turn to "start" and everything goes off.

    So I put it on the 2A Schumacher over the weekend.

    Tues AM, I turn the key, and it fires right up. Alt light goes out.
    Drive it to the gas station, fill it up --- and it won't start again: same thing: everything goes dark with the key in "start".
    Lights back on otherwise.

    Put it on the 2A maintainer for the day, and check it in the afternoon:
    Battery reads 12.5V, 11.5V with headlights: still goes black (and 1.5V) trying to start.
    So I take the MT34 from the house inverter, and run it in parallel with the MT34R.
    Same thing.
    I do the disconnect and run off the external battery: same thing.

    I haven't been able to check the alternator voltage, because I can't get it to start.

    Everything looks okay until I try to start, then voltage goes to nothing.
    And comes back to 12.5V with the car "on" but not "start".

    I put the external MT34 back on the inverter and started the charge cycle.
    It reads at 75% charge.

    Last time I had something like this, it was a loose plus connection at the battery.
    But it's tight now.

    Does this ring any bells for anyone?

    I don't know if this is a shorted starter or a bad cable somewhere underneath.
     
  2. cmt6891

    cmt6891 Formula 3

    Feb 25, 2008
    1,337
    Encino, Ca
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    Carl T
    Check the ground strap from the starter to the chassis. Sounds like a voltage drop at the starter. Not sure if a bad solenoid would be the cause.
     
  3. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
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    Where are you making this voltage measurement?

    Sounds more like ignition switch bad to me than primary battery/connection problem. If you turn the headlights "on", and then try to start, do the headlights stay "on" or go "off" with the key in Pos III (start)?
     
  4. DGS

    DGS Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Voltage at the battery posts.

    When I turn the headlights on, they're fine ... until I try to start -- then everything goes dark.
    It's almost like the starter is a dead short.

    Except ...
    I forgot to mention one more data point:
    At the gas station, when it wouldn't start, they put one of those "buddy packs" across the battery posts, and it started.

    But at home, when I ran a second MT34 across the MT34R using jumper cables, no difference from the one battery alone.
    (And, yes, I got the polarity right. ;))

    I disconnected the ground strap and put the 10A charger on the battery until it read "charged", then hooked the battery back to the car.
    12.75 V at the battery ... except in position III (start).

    The car ran fine, a couple weeks ago.
    The Interstate battery is from 2008, so it's got a few years on it.
    But it doesn't seem to be a battery issue.
     
  5. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    13,549
    San Carlos, CA
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    Mitchell Le
    Take your battery out, pain in the ass I know. Then have it load tested.
     
  6. DGS

    DGS Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    I thought of that.
    I disconnected the ground strap to disconnect the battery in the car, then tried starting with an external MT-34 (from my house backup inverter).
    (Jumper cables to the plus post in the car and to the chassis for neg)
    No difference with either battery, or with both in parallel.
     
  7. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
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    +1 to what Mitchell recommended (or you could just buy a new battery anyway and still be way ahead of the game).

    If something was truly loading down a healthy battery so much that the voltage fell to ~1V = the wiring would melt ;)
     
  8. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

    Jun 14, 2008
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    It's the battery OR a faulty/corroded cable connection to the battery.

    That's my opinion...and that's where I'd start...at my local Costco for a new batt! :)
     
  9. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
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    When you said "Voltage at the battery posts", do you literally mean touching to the battery posts themselves and not the cable terminals clamped to the posts? If there was a bad connection between the clamp-on terminal and the exiting cable = that would cause a problem for either your normal battery or the MT-34 you tried to add, but the voltage between the actual normal battery posts would still be +12V if the battery was OK.
     
  10. dfranzen

    dfranzen Formula 3
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    Aug 31, 2013
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    Don Franzen
    UHHHH HELLO 96 month old battery!

    get a new one and be done with it
     
  11. E-Dino

    E-Dino Formula Junior

    Aug 11, 2012
    378
    San Diego
    Yep. 2008 was a long time ago. I know it is hard to believe. Time for a new Interstate.
     
  12. DGS

    DGS Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    I had the meter clipped to a nail pressed into the clamp.
    I removed the clamp on terminals, and there's corrosion ... again.

    I also suspect that jumper cables light enough to fit in this car aren't hefty enough to help. I've never been able to get jumper cables to work.

    So, after seeing that the plus lead is a $256 part that runs all the way to the back, I'm thinking about just putting a new connector on the cable.
    But the factory arrangement is weird. There's like a "0" gauge wire to the fuse panel with a "marine" loop terminal that bolts to the factory battery clamp.
    I was looking at converting both cables to marine, and using a post adapter, but I don't think a marine connector will handle that big honkin' (3/0?) cable to the starter.

    I haven't replaced the starter in the 15 years I've owned this thing, so I suspect it takes a boatload of juice to spin it. (No pun intended: marine connector/boatload. ;))

    So I'm looking at a big honkin' replacement connector (that I have on hand, after building my home inverter), but I'm trying to figure how to connect that second cable, without just twisting the wires together.

    Anyone done a cable clamp replacement?
     
  13. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
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    Feb 24, 2006
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    +1 on a new battery, put fresh new battery, Costco now caries Interstate battery. My last Interstate battery lasted 9 years.
     
  14. st@ven

    st@ven F1 Rookie

    Aug 4, 2008
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    Just clean the clamp?
     
  15. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

    Jun 14, 2008
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    Yep, my Costco lasted 7 (bought it when I purchased the car in '08). And when it finally faded, the starting symptoms were exactly as the OP posted - sometimes a good start, sometimes a "CLICK". I did a voltage check at the battery with engine idling (1000 RPM) and voltage was 13.8 - showing that the charging system was working fine. Shut off engine and disconnected terminals and voltage at the battery immediately dropped to 12.5 and within a minute was down to 12.2 and continuing south!
     
  16. Fiat4Fun

    Fiat4Fun Formula Junior

    Jul 1, 2008
    315
    Sunriver OR
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    Bob
    Just had this issue, but with a new Interstate battery. Had my car in the garage for 3 weeks without driving it ( i know, I know, I should drive it, but I was working….) and went to start it, and it was dead. Tried jumping with my fancy micro battery jumper, spun the motor, would not start. Jumped with my Jeep, would not start…… Took my battery out of my fiat, and started right up. Been driving it around for a few weeks, to see if the car or alternator has an issue with drawing down the battery, and it has started right up every time and ran perfect.

    Took, my two year old battery in to the dealer, and they have been testing it.

    I would stick a new battery in it, and my guess is that it will be off and running……..
     
  17. sammyb

    sammyb Formula 3

    Jun 23, 2006
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    Use to have a similar issue with the GT4 when I had a quick-disconnect on the terminal. Turned out that it was simply a bad connection. Make sure EVERYTHING is tight with no corrosion. If any of the battery leads are loose at all, you can have the fuel pumps, lights and stereo going and go to crank and the whole sh'bang goes dark...until you improve the connection.

    By the way COSTCO Kirkland batteries were evidently made by Interstate since the get-go. They abandoned the private label deal last year, so the batteries now have an Interstate packaging. (Costco doesn't make anything. Everything they sell branded Costco or Kirkland is simply by private label agreement.)
     
  18. Jeka

    Jeka Formula 3
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    Nov 20, 2010
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    In my opinion, cleaning the poles and clamps could be sufficient. If they are corroded there will be a voltagedrop between the pole and the clamp in high current situations (starting). That's why you should measure the voltage direcly on the poles and not on the clamps. Installing a new battery will ofcourse clean the poles but not the clamps :)
     
  19. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

    Jun 14, 2008
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    Actually Interstate doesn't make batteries either. They are a marketer - just as Costco was with "Kirkland" or Sears is with "Diehard." The batts (Interstate, Kirkland, Diehard, as well as many other well-known brands) are made by Johnson Controls who also supply many of the carmakers OEM batteries with the auto-brand label.
     
  20. DGS

    DGS Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Update: there was a smidge of corrosion showing on the plus lead.

    I've tried cleaning the connectors. I managed to open the plus "C" clamp, but I can't get the bolt loose.
    The replacement cable is like $266 and runs to the back of the car.
    Maybe when I have the car in for service.

    The neg lead was easier to remove from the battery.
    The "C" clamp is all the way closed, and I can't pry it open at all.
    Oddly enough, that lead, that just runs to the disconnect at the front --
    -- is also about $240. Huh?

    The weird part is that the parts catalog shows the braid ground clamping to the car, and the battery lead as the loose connector.
    On my car, the battery lead is bolted to the chassis, and the braid lead is the loose connector.

    Anyone else have the battery disconnect that way?

    I'd look at a compression fitting replacement clamp, but the NAPA stores here don't carry it, and it can't be mailed (lead hazmat).

    I don't want to use a cheap wire pinch clamp connector on the 4/0 gauge ground wire, but I may not have a lot of options, short of putting the car in for service, and waiting for a slow delivery.

    Alas, I missed the few days of good weather we had. DC doesn't get that many.

    Since I plan to have the car serviced this winter, I just need to get through the rest of the season.
    Then I might opt for new battery cables.
     
  21. AMA328

    AMA328 F1 Rookie

    Nov 12, 2002
    2,518
    ABQ-67me68-OKC :)
    Well, here you are, almost a week later and not definitive answer. You know you're gonna need a new battery, so replace that and go from there. This, that, other game is just wasting your time and you're right back where you started.

    Buy a battery + 10 minutes to put it in, vs. wasting a week...
     

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