328 still no start

Have you checked the fuel accumulator...this has familiar symtoms

 

That wouldn't cause it to die, would it? Mine went bad and it had a hard 'warm start' problem, but the car ran great once started.

 

True

 

I know I was off on my first suggestion but have you checked the grounds and relay? Perhaps the relay is flakey...just a thought.

 

BTW, am I missing something with the "winks" ?[/QUOTE]

No...it's a bad habit...just a friendly wink.

 

Sounds like it might be low fuel pressure. You might be right about the warm up regulator. You can order a CIS pressure tester through NAPA. They're different from regular fuel pressure testers -- CIS systems run much higher fuel pressure.

Runs for a bit and dies could be fuel starvation. But if just sitting with the fuel pump off will let it run, ...

AHA! Ventilation! Try it with the gas cap off. There may be something clogged in the vapor recovery system. The gas tank may be pulling a vacuum if it isn't getting air to replace the fuel coming out. That could possibly be keeping the fuel pump from moving fuel. The vapor recovery system could be tricky in a 328 with those dual tanks.

I've never really looked into the tank vapor system on the 328, but I had a similar issue with the Alfa once, when the tank vent valve went bad. (Although the fuel delivery system was the short suit on the 115 Spiders -- I've modified the system considerably to get rid of the fuel issues.)

That, or your coils have turned into permanent magnets -- but electrical issues on a 328 tend to only hit one bank, unless it's a computer or flywheel sensor issue.

Or it could be something like a clogged fuel filter or tank screen. Intermittent issues are a pita to track down.

 

What about the switch on the diaphram under the aircleaner? I'm not a CIS expert but my understanding is when you turn the key on the fuel pump runs enough to get the car to start but won't come back on until it detects air flow going into the intake. I'm not sure if that would cause the car to run for 3 seconds and die but it's an easy thing to check. Just remove the air cleaner and turn the key to the on position, then push gently down on the large silver disk and the fuel pump should come on. Don't hold it down too long since it will pump fuel into the injectors. Someone with more CIS experience might be able to chime in on this with better info.

 

Check to see if the fuel pump continues to run after the ingition switch "key" position goes from start to run. It may be that the pump relay loses power in the run position. Most CIS systems use the start position on the ingintion switch to power the pump when cranking at the same time. After it starts and runs a lead off the coils power the pump relay.
Make sure your fuel pump is running when the key springs back to the run position.

Good Luck,
GT

 

That's interesting. I wonder if the car is running purely on the cold-start injector. The cold start injector sprays fuel into the plenum while the car is cranking. When the cold start injector stops that fuel would get used up and the engine would die. You could unplug that injector and see if it runs at all.

 

He did say that he checked an injector for spray.

But that does suggest the possibility of a mixture issue ... if the cold start injector keeps spraying. It might eventually get too rich and die, ... until the excess fuel evaporated after sitting a while. But you generally get a strong fuel smell from the engine when it gets that rich.

If it's the cold start, I'd guess that would be a control (electrical) issue keeping it spraying. If it were leaking, it would continue to leak after shutdown until the system pressure bled off. So it would take quite a while before it would restart (and a lot of cranking, if the pressure was gone completely).

Either way, it sounds like too much or too little fuel. A CIS pressure meter could be useful to monitor the system pressure and control pressure. If pressure falls off when it dies, that would be fuel starvation. That could be tank ventilation or a control pressure issue (possibly a bad WUR).

When you checked the plug after it died, was it wet with fuel? (That would be an indicator of too rich a mix.)

 

CIS test sets available at such cheap prices now I'd be getting one and running through the system if only to rule a few things out.
JC Whitely has them at $60 US atm. At that price probably every QV owner should have one.

 

Had a similar problem, intermittant running issues--turned out to be a bad relay. It was the "all key function" relay, I had a major performed on the car and as an additional safeguard I replaced all the relays.

 

The terminals on the WUR are just for a heater element. Even if the heater is broken it will really still work OK, engine heat will warm it up. Even if this is unplugged the car will still run OK if the WUR is good. But a faulty WUR could be providing too low or too high a control pressure, which is where you are heading with the fuel pressure guage.

 

Remember that CIS systems run *much* higher pressure than your average fuel pressure gauge is built for -- up to four bar (by comparison, your cooling system runs 0.9 or 1.1 bar).

Do you have the 328 tech specs (pdf file) available off the web? That will tell you the fuel pressure you should be seeing out of the WUR (pressure is the only real way to check the WUR). I've attached a shrunk version of the page, but it might be hard to read, compared to the pdf.

But if you're getting spray after stall if you manually press down the plate, then I'd be guessing that the engine is getting air without it going through the plate. Maybe it's only running on the aux air valve?

Or it could be the plate sticking, or out of alignment, so the idle air flow isn't keeping the fuel pump lit up. Or the control pressure could be way too high, keeping the air from moving the plate. (The pump safety circuit is set up so that when the plate is at the rest position, the fuel pump only gets power when the key is in "start". Once the plate moves, the safety circuit cuts out and the pump gets power until you turn the ignition switch off or until the plate returns to rest (interpreted as a stall).

If it's not getting fuel when cranking, but is with the plate pushed down, check fuse 9. Make sure relay S and R are the right types -- double throw (ends -101) for relay S, single throw (ends -113) for relay R.
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NAPA doesn't stock the CIS tester in the stores, but they can get it on order in a day or two.

The injector should spray with the ignition on and the plate pressed down, even without cranking. The injector should also spray with the plate not pressed down and the key in "start" (cranking). Either way, you should hear the fuel pump running (with the engine off).

If the pump is running but you're not getting spray, then it's something mechanical in the fuel distribution. If the pump doesn't run when it should, it's likely electrical.

 

Just to clarify, the injector should not spray while cranking unless the plate is deflected down. The engine sucking air in should deflect the plate and cause spray. The injector should not spray if the plate is up/at rest under any circumstances. If you have a big vacuum leak (as someone above suggested) that is bypassing the plate then it might never move down, the injector will stay dry, you would run on the cold start injector until that fuel is gone. But if you had that big of a leak I would expect that engine speed would be pretty high in those 3 seconds of running, it would be like having the throttle open a bit. You haven't mentioned that as a symptom.