328 to 512BBi

I have been thinking about selling my 328 and buying a 512BBi. My objective is to find a well sorted, unmodified car that is ready to drive and show (perhaps with some small amount of work needed). My 328 is very nice (2009 Coppa winner) and I really enjoy it so I am in no hurry.

For me the BBi seems like a good entry into an Enzo era car that has some race heritage. I have always loved the way the front and rear clips open.

Prices seem to be all over the place between $90,000 and $120,000, with some sellers in the unrealistic $170,000 range. I would appreciate any guidance in my search and with actual transaction values. I have been checking some websites and the FML.

I have seen one car that has less than 4000 KM, luggage, and is a completely original. It was never federalized and recently received a complete service including engine out. What would be a realistic price for such a car?

 

$170K is the market for the earlier Boxers, for an unmolested low miles example, there are several out there right now.

Although buying a later injected one a little lower will give you the $$ for an engine out to see what you really have.

Do you kow Geno up there?
He could give you a good market overview and maybe help in your search.

 

That is good advice all around, except that you could risk being seen with Geno in public.

The 4k km car with luggage, no federalization and an engine out SHOULD be expensive if no other huge issues are lurking. I'd put that one toward the top of the market, 130ish. More?

 

If you were buying my car and you wanted an engine out service in order to evaluate the car I can assure you it would not be anywhere close to the expenses advertised.

My point is an original car with an owner that knows what he has would not allow unnecessary service to be performed if the car is taken to a half way ethical service shop.

You could not pay too much for a great Boxer and too little for a bad one.

Be aware more often than not one can have a BB with issues mechanically while aesthetically might look great because they can look great with miles but......

Very few people know these cars and how to service them...truth is they are very easy and need very little if they are original with real low miles.

A good BB is very dependable Ferrari and even bullet proof so to speak if truly with low miles.

There is many ways to evaluate true low miles with a mechanical inspection of certain components.

Here is one .....do they have the original brake pads?
Is the distributor original inside with out service and if serviced ask to look at the original hats the cams ride on for wear ...best mile counter right there.

The list goes on and on ...when you find the one it would pay to have an expert evaluate the car for you.

130 should be a bargain for a real BB or injected car.

Mario

 

Love BBs but they are considered a Fiat-Era car.

 

What is a Fiat era car and who is doing the consideration?

Mario

 

To me, one of these days, the market will look at the Boxer and the Dino (another Fiat-era car) side-by-side and say,

"Wait a second... you mean to tell me the exclusive hand-hammered 12 cylinder supercar is LESS than the 6 cylinder entry car?" And things will shift.

Former Dino owner here, not casting stones, plenty to support its moment in the sun, but I do believe things will shift.

 

Every Ferrari from 1969 is a FIAT era car (FIAT bought a controlling stake in that year and retains it this day). It is a ill-considered layman assessment to relate FIAT ownership to anything to do with quality of Ferrari cars.

The fact is that Boxers are the last Ferrari model with a handtooled chassis and as such more of an Enzo-era car than a FIAT-era car (assuming some sort of mass production dig has been made with the latter categorisation). Ferrari quality did suffer during the late '70ies and '80ies but that was unrelated to FIAT and any car that has been going for 40 years can't be all that bad. Certainly not anymore as current good examples are well sorted and very reliable.


Onno

 

agreed. never have understood this disparity

 

I like Ross also agree. The Dino has certainly grown on me in a big way in recent years. I think the styling is what makes the car and has impacted its value as off late. About 5-7 years ago, Dinos were valued right where the BB was or about $50-$70K. Ferrari made about as many of each car in various variants. Its supply and demand, with many fans caming out and making that under powered beautifully styled car triple or quadruple in value. I feel that the BB should be valued similarly and for a while there I though they would. Now a ratty Dino is what a concourse 512 BB is worth.

Geno

 

Ironic. Along with the fact that the Dino is truly a "Fiat" era car! I am not knocking the Dino either, I have always said that my first ride in a Dino sparked my interest in Ferraris. Although technically, I guess it really isn't a full blooded Ferrari.

The Dino is an aesthetic masterpiece, what a stroke of genius from the pen of Fioravanti who also designed the Daytona, Boxer, 308, and 288 GTO.

But the Boxer will someday be recognized widely as it is here esoterically with owners and Boxerphiles.

 

Well I can't disagree about Boxer values, and wouldn't be surprised to see a decent increase once the economy perks up a bit more.

For the original poster, this would no doubt be a good time to get into a Boxer. The prices were on the rise before the crunch, and will likely pick up a bit again as I said.
If your looking for one in the show condition of your 328, you'll probably be looking at 120K, and probably 130K or more for a great car.

John

 

Having owned a Dino, I cannot imagine in any way why a Boxer isn't worth significantly more.

I've always been tempted but two things have thrown me off

1) Federalization and modifications done to it.

2) Running, maintenance, and repair costs.

They seem to suffer the same problems as Dino's: Uncomfortable driving position, small cabin, and poor ventilation. But, Dino's are easier and cheaper to fix.

Personally, I think the Boxer is better looking but that is, of course, a matter of taste.

 

I think just about EVERY automobile manufacturer had quality issues in that time frame.

 

I find, as a 6"1' and 180lbs guy, the driving position in a Boxer to be perfectly fine and significantly better than either Dino, 308 or 328 with more headroom. The pedals are much less offset towards the right (for a LHD car) too. It certainly does suffer from greenhouse effect and there's only space for the mobile phone, if that.

Fair point.


Onno

 

had a 328 was a fun car, Boxers look and drive like a supercar they have a handmade feel to them, when the Boxer came out it was viewed as a thinly disguised F1 car in street clothes they are quite different than a 328 not a big brother vs little brother comparison

 

Make sure doc's are in order for a BB. If you live in CA, this is really - really important. You have to be pretty thick skinned to deal with straightening this stuff out if necessary, ie official letters demanding the car be exported etc.. Even when they're mistakes raise your blood pressure. You have to learn the requirements to hold your ground.

After it's sorted, (or all set to begin with) - What a fabulous machine. I also think the BB is one of the most beautiful designs to come out of Maranello. The little Dino is a gorgeous masterpiece, but mechanically speaking, that big 12 pushing you down the road and accelerating out of turns with a symphony of machinery and exhaust note is pretty (insert expletive here )amazing!

 

2dinos,
Can I safely assume that you got your Boxer issues sorted out with the state?

In California, a Boxer must already have a BAR (Bureau of automotive repair) sticker, or you can not register it in the state. I don't know if there's a way around it.

John

 

Gerry,
Although the BBi you looked at was what you are looking for, the seller obviously has "personal emotions" connected to it. Enter his $170k price range here. If he gets $170k, God bless him. If you took that same car and removed the emotions, would the seller hold out for $170k?
Be patient as you state above and we will keep a look out for you. You will find the right car and seller in time. In the mean time enjoy the 328.
We will have to get together some time this season and I'll give you a ride in my BBi.

Dave

 

Gary,

This looks like a great example and a great deal. Seems to have every thing:

http://www.anamera.com/en/detail/car/75954/index.html?no_cache=1&ret=63

 

same color as my 308 gtb qv...a really elegant color!!

bill noon has spoken highly of this car and it is complete w/ a BAR sticker!!!

 

Wow, that is a nice one and I like the color combo.

 

Pete.

Bill Noon is a great guy. I've never done business with him but it seems that many hold him and Symbolic in high regard. I also find they have realistic prices on their inventory unlike other vintage dealers we all know about. He is very picky especially with Boxers. So if he thinks this is a good one it probably is...

Geno

 

If you take the engine bay photo save it to file and blow it up, there is a white/gray aftermarket electronic box mounted just to the right of the coolant expansion tank.

Anyone know what that box is for, and why it's mounted on this car?
Dave

 

Yes, it's sorted! Yippie!! It was a traumatic experience.

Not a project to be taken lightly. You can get a BAR sticker, but the car has to pass the entire FTP! Best to do this on one that is in truly excellent mechanical condition. If I new how much it was going to suck, I would have re-thunk (re-thinked )the whole game.