The you. Tube video speaks for itself....period
I have driven on a few European mountain roads and around their very sharp and unforgiving hairpins. Road grip can be like a shuffle board, and add any moisture and become a fool's playground. Unless you compare something else going around the same corner, your case is less than compelling. You sound very young, and I applaud your enthusiasm and confidence! You are too old to remember Hill Street Blues, but, remember, "be careful out there!" There are many things I can say with confidence as it relates to Boxers, chief among them is a wreck in one will breaks hearts (and body parts.) Bring your car to C&C in Irvine one of these days. If you happen to see a red BBi, chances are pretty good it is me and I hope you introduce yourself! It would be a fun destination after an "o'dark thirty" cruise!
where is c n c,?,,im not far from Irvine,,,let me know when and where,,,we can go for a drive,,(,,reguarding the video,,,it sure didnt look wet or tight to me),,,maybe we can take an early sat / sun morning drive up the ortega for breakfast,,,take it easy,,,Brett
Well. stock tires for one thing in video, and stock tires suck, stock tires was not the premise. Plus it looked like played shocks. Lastly and in any event the little 328 is going to be better around a 20 mph hairpin, a boxer is going to feel heavy on such a bend regardless of tires, although blasting up the hill after the bend is still going to be fun. Take a high speed 80 mph sweeper and it is a very different story. In Nick Masons car book they compare his BBLM to his F40. According to the driver while the BBLM always felt like it did not wish to be rushed, and required skill, its track time was significantly quicker than the F40. A BBLM was a race converted BB, same basic suspension, so the potential of the platform is clear. BBLM'sa were raced at le-mans, although the weak transaxle always was an issue. Dont remember a 308 there. The 308 was more a rally car. And in this the differences are clear. For High speed intensive driving the BB is the machine. If its tight cart tracks a jacked up 308 is your choice, but a stratos is even better. If you were going to lap Nurbering the stock motored BB with modern tires would eat any stock motored 328 regardless of tires, in fact it would eat a 355 too. A BB is one of the few cars that tightens its line on a corner when the power is poured on, right untill the limits are reached, then if you back off or even feather it spins, the key is feeling that slight vibration and lightness that comes through the wheel as you apprach the limit and holding it just below the threshold, then as the benmd opens up pour in the power and slowly wind of lock as the rear scabbles and slighly cabs looking for grip as uopu are catapulted out of the bend. This can only be done ona raod you know well, because get it wrong and you are going off. Get it just right and your exit speed is so high someone woill need serious hp to stop you passing then as you enter the straihgt. On the road it is just truly rewarding and fun, not delicate like a 308, more 357 dessert eagle than 22long. Or like anything great, including tempramental red headed women an aquired taste for the truly experienced. If a vette is hamburgers and freench fries, a porche a beer, a 328 an Italian table wine, then the bb is a really good full bodied bordeux, not for everyday, but truly great for the right occasion..
comparing a stock BBi to a stock 328 on california roads...im still sticking with my opinion,,,maybe on a track ., things might be different,,,if you have very long enough straights,,,you might be able to use the power to stay ahead,,but not on the street,,,there is no way a stock BBI .,,even with new tires,,is going to have greater corner speed,,i mean look at the video,,they are top heavy,,even way before i bought my 328,,,ive been into reading about Ferraris,,,for many years,,and its been said,,that they do not handle very well,,,and a stock 512,,will get beat even harder by a 355,,,there is no doubt that its a beautiful and fast car,,,and if you start to talk about nick masons car,,,its heavily..modified comparing it to an F40..is way off topic,,,,im talking about the cars,,as they are,,,from the factory.,...i know my wheels and tires are not stock,,,even if you upgrade the wheels,,,on the boxer,,,its not going to be faster in the canyons,,,i mean,,please,,,look at the video.,.,ive got a 80 MPH left hand sweeper near my house,,ive been through that bend 100 times,,all four wheels sliding,,,,no stock boxer is is going to be quicker,,,the 328 is much better balenced,,,its much easier to drive faster in it,,,that guy in the video was going slower than i could have went in my truck,and look what happened..,,any faster,,and he would have crashed,,,im only schooled on a track on a motorcycle,,i know driving a car on a track,,compared to the street,,is way different,,,none of these california fellows want to give it a go,,,its a west coast thing,,im ready to try this out,,with anybody,,anywhere,,on any road,,,,thanks for your continued replys,,,i cant believe we are still on this thread,,,i thought the video would finally put things in perspective,,,,but i was wrong,,,,,ps,,i grew up in CT,,,,great roads there as well,,,ill be there in august,,,im shipping my 1300 to north haven,,to my parents house,,,im going to wheelie through 4 gears every chance i get,,,,,,peace,,
Rob Lay, I think f1nxlife needs a ban. Even after the thread he started, Bbi handling, was closed and locked, and Brian banned, he continues with his antagonistic comments here. His thread Bbi handling was started by him for no other reason than to provoke, and his latest comments in this thread continue in that same manor. Brian shouldnt have said what he did to you, but f1nxlife is purposely pushing as many buttons in his own way, as Brian did with you! So I ask you to give him the same banned time as you gave Brian. John
I was hoping to see BB prices plummet and 3X8 prises rise as a result of f1xnlife's posts! Then I could have made a trade that would make at least one of those unfortunate BB owners whole. It is the least that I could do for those poor souls.....
Great post Sean. Makes me want to go out and buy one, lol! I couldn't agree more with the rewards afforded when you get all the Boxer moves right. Mess up a downshift braking hard entering a corner will get your heart up in your thoat. But, match your footwork properly with downshifts while driving the correct line, and there are few more satisfying sensations. The exit speed/acceleration as the turn flattens out is thrilling. The title of this thread says it all "328 to 512" It is a very natural and understandable progression for those that are lucky enough to pull it off.
The obtuse element of this thread, where Brett is concerned, is that he is equating the the performance of a given car to DRIVING ABILITY. That is NOT the point of the comparison, whether it be a Boxer vs. a 328, or a Euro dry sump 308 vs. a 328. That he can supposedly drive 170MPH (or whatever the hell he claims) through known canyon roads is completely immaterial; that is a measure of driving skill and knowing the roads, and using a car that has some capability. As far as the Boxer vs 328 comparison is concerned, if we were to put say Valentino Balboni behind the wheel of a Boxer, carbed or otherwise, he is going to kick the Sh*t out of virtually any other driver in a 328 (or a Boxer) not named Alonso or Vettel. Period. Conversely, if we were to stick Niki Lauda in a 328 and have him race Brett in his 328...or even a Boxer, well...I think the point is made. In short, drivers being equal, the Boxer is going to kick the snot out of a 328. Furthermore, if I were to go on roads that Brett knows, he's going to beat me and, accordingly, my car. He comes out to Temecula...very different story. Neutral ground?...perhaps we can do it sometime, but the whole thing is kind of funny, really. I mean, we're talkin' slow poke cars (not the Boxers!) here by today's standards. All this being said, if I had the means to sell a 328 to acquire a Boxer...well it would be hard to imagine my moving with more alacrity to do so.
328 vs 512BB 328 was my first Ferrari I really liked the car and had a blast with it, when I got my carbed 512 it was a totally different league and feel, the Boxer had a supercar hand made feel to it hard to describe and made the 328 feel like a much lesser car, I would never have known better if I hadnt got a Boxer would have thought the 328 was it. Concerning the 328 out cornering a BB, the transverse engine set up made the 328 have a high center of gravity and it would be very easy to spin one out never did but came close and it happens fast, 328s have better lower profile tires which give the impression of better handling vs the BBs high sidewall tires but a BB handles much better IMO. The Boxer feels like a old F1 Ferrari in street clothes the 328 heavier and makes its power at high rpms.
Nice write up. 70's Can Am racer? If I was looking to buy a 512 BB (which will happen someday) and someone described it as a 70's Can Am racer that would sell me on the car in an instant. If this is true, I really wonder why they aren't more expensive. Jim
Way back when the thought of Ferrari's was a lofty dream, my gearhead budddies and I would test our memory on that summary of current cars performance. ie slolom speed / skidpad / 0-60 / braking from 80 / mpg etc etc. I can't recall the BB figures except that it had the highest cornering forces and acceleration. Circa 1980: Thru the fog, I recall the Fiat X1/9 skidpad as .779g The 308 skidpad was .8x?? / 0-60 was 6.x? The 512 BB was something higher. / 0-60 was 5.0 flat IIRC Anyone remember those numbers?
i remember the bbi being 5.5 seconds to 60. the skid pad i thought was .858g ish i also remember the 930 turbo being 4.9 seconds to 60...that was PRETTY strong back then!!!
http://www.classicdriver.com/uk/magazine/3200.asp?id=12809 i ordered the 1978 road and track test of the Boxer,,,should be filled with more good info,,,
painful to watch [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrA1_vLhwsA[/ame] a 288 gto snuck in there, ya'll will spot her
this reminds me of when that comedien wrecked a private owners Enzo at Irwindale speedway in califronia...Ferraris dont look good cracked up,,,thats for sure, good you tube clip,,,a sobering reminder that people do crash Ferraris,,,
When I had my 328 I was concerned about oil pressure loss in hard cornering since it was not a dry sump as the 512BB is, dont know if it ever happened but took it on some windy roads through Death Valley several times at full tilt had fun though. An old pic Image Unavailable, Please Login
death valley is a great place,,,,328s have 10 quarts of oil,,,no chance of non oiling on hard cornering,,,,3.2 liters with 10 quarts,,,my truck is 5.3 and it takes 6 quarts,,i would say Ferrari took care of that,,,your car looks great...
Okay...so I was lucky/fortunate enough to go on a drive with John (At Sea) today and he was kind/gracious enough to let me drive his carbed 512. So...ANYONE. Let me repeat...ANYONE. Hold on...maybe I wasn't clear...ANY. ONE. who thinks a U.S. 328 (and, no doubt a Euro, as well) can beat a carbed 512 BB needs to simply leave this site. I have driven three 328s; all of them perfomed pretty equally. A Boxer will DESTROY a 328. It is an effing beast. From 40 MPH on...forget it. That is the coolest/baddest Ferrari I have ever driven. The sound is nuts! The pull is like a freight train. Thanks again John!! Whoever said "it's like a 70's can am race car for the road" absolutely nailed it. A 328 feels like a Honda by comparison. And that's not hyperbole. Oh...it also handles very well; very flat with very little body roll. And then there's the looks of the thing. Sigh...one can dream...
You can feel the heft. Had plenty of back to back seat time in my 308 and my boxer. After a relaxing comfortable drive in my 308, the boxer felt violent under acceleration in comparison. It's bulkier, less room in the cabin and it's hotter as well. The only thing I think someone stepping up to a boxer from a 3X8 would complain about is the potential for financial devastation in the blink of an eye. They are two totally different cars that scratch different itches. I miss the light tossable feel of my 308 but the boxer more than makes up for it I can assure you!
Much as I feel a personal transgression for agreeing with NEWMAN, I do. Wholeheartedly. (Always good to get your input!) I had a 328 and Boxer at the same time, and drove them back to back several times. The 328 is SO well built, pretty refined, and for what it is, the performance is totally acceptable. Handling is really nice. I've nothing but 'nice' things to say about a 328. The Boxer is a different deal altogether. We can argue carbs and injection all day long, but any Boxer vs a 328 is raw vs refined, aggression vs. acceptance, mad vs. moderate. You may give up a little 'nice' with a Boxer... But as Newman said, 'the Boxer more than makes up for it'.
