hopefully some people can ring in and let me know how wrong the below is and fill in the gaps the original 328 pump used a 2-part seal (121533 and 120948). One piece is pressed into the pump body, the other piece into a raised cavity on the brass impeller. The interface between these two pieces is/are a ceramic disc which wears, cracks, or otherwise likes to fail somewhere around the 30K major service interval (+/- 30K depending on how much the car sits) the new pumps available from ferrari for $800 use a one piece seal that pretty much works. This seal is similar/same as the standard pac-seal #68 available as mcmaster-carr 409 and elsewhere....however, they aren't a direct swap into the original pump. options: 1] buy the ferrari pump and likely not need to rebuild 2] buy aftermarket pump from nick for $150 less, tho some info on rebuilding that if/when needed would be nice to know. Likely not need to rebuild. 3] rebuild the pump with the original seals and expect to do it again 4] send the original or pieces thereof to someone who can modify it for the one-piece seal...who and how much? 5] do/get the mods done yourself: - turn down shaft to .625" to accept new seal - modify the impeller to remove the cavity? - fabricate an adapter ring...maybe not needed on the 328 pump bodies? I know how to do the first three. I'm not sure what's actually necessary to do #5 or roughly what it would cost to shop out, and therefore whether it's worth the bother. Anyone doing/done this? related info, though may be 308: http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47191 http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34538
I just installed a replacement pump I got from GT Car Parts in Phoenix. (car is still on jack stands) The last rebuild of my pump was when I had a major on the car in 2001 (about 8K miles). I will probably send the old pump out for a rebuild and then throw it on the shelf and install when needed.
As someone who owns their own shop I would suggest bying a rebuilt water pump from any number of vendors listed on the chat. The time and extra expense of modifying a part to save a few dollars can easily come back and haunt you if it fails. I replaced a 328 pump (the origional) on an 86 328 with 62000 miles on it and Steve at T. Rutlands was very helpful in that area. The origional pump has a brass impeller and I understand that some have plastic impellers and the core is adjusted downward for the plastic. I tell my clients who are looking for a "bargain" that you never find time to do it right but always find time to do it over... I have a near zero% come back rate when using the good stuff. Just my thoughts.
I had a "weeper" and replaced it (in my 1977 308GTB 33k miles) about 1 year ago with one of Nick's pumps. It was a simple operation, sealed up perfectly and has worked well ever since. The car doesn't run as hot in the summer either. I would highly recomment the re-engineered pump. todd
to more or less close the case on this... I contacted east coast jaguar to ask what they did to the pump in their rebuilds. What I wanted to avoid in the future was the birdman/verell case mentioned in http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34538 where the pump had an unknown seal in it thus limiting rebuild options. east joast jaguar was evasive beyond the point of irritating. I said I didn't care if it was a $13 seal they used, I either needed the part number or an assurance that the ferrari 1-piece seal would drop in. About the best I got out of them in multiple attempts was "we do nothing a competent rebuilder couldn't duplicate" and "we do nothing that prevents someone down the road from using ferrari parts". I suppose it's a novel form of marketing to piss off the customer to the point they buy the product/service just to get a straight answer. I received the rebuilt pump and promptly removed the impeller to take a look. Either my original impeller was lathed, or they swapped it out. The raised ring which I assume half the 2-part seal sat in was gone, though a small ring around the hole was still there (tool couldn't cut the rest away?). Seemed to preclude rebuilding that pump with original ferrari parts unless you bought a new impeller and probably a new shaft...maybe the 1-piece seal fits, though. the seal itself looked exactly like the one verell posted the picture of in the above thread. It has 1.43 stamped on the cup portion. The shaft I believe was replaced or turned down - can't find the original dimensions, but it's .625 now. asked verell and he said they replaced birdman's with the industry standard 409 seal (pac seal type 68), so at least that's an option if it's not the exact part currently in there. I can't complain about the workmanship of east coast jaguar, and it doesn't bother me that of the ~$320 rebuild cost probably way less than $75 is parts. If they told me a 409 seal would work - even if it's not what they used - I'd have cheerfully coughed up the loot. However, when the pump goes again in a friends car (or mine), I'll probably do something else/go elsewhere to fix it. I recall seeing on another thread someone used an uprated 409-style seal...maybe the elastomer or seats are better on that.
Here in the UK many of the parts vendors and Indi's are selling/using a pattern part that comes from Italy. QV London have been using them for a couple of years & I have had one in my 328 since last September. So far no problems. Costs a bit over £100. Have a look at Eurospares & Superformance websites.
