hey guys, I just got an 86 328... in great shape, Ive had it for about a month and its been great.... till this morning tried to start it and nothing... it cranks but no start... tried it about 8 -9 times short burst so I dont fry the starter but nothing... normally it starts on the first try? so I pulled the white connector to the cold start valve.. with the ignition on and no fuel pump running... so pulled fuses replaced fuses... tried again ... nothing... then pulled the blue connector, and the cold start connector... wiggled both relays.... tried it again and wham it started..... whats going on anyone have similar issues? Battery seems ok I'll get it on the charger ... once its started it starts fine ???? the car had sat since tuesday evening with out running... normally try to drive it every day or every other... so I dont think its the Battery? it just seems strange that this just happend..
Just a quick note. Its very hard to diagnose a problem without actually having the car in front of you,but.............heres a little tip to try. Seeing as you said you wriggled both relays for the cold start. Maybe........its a sticking relay. Once its been energised its ok,but leave it sit,say overnight when the car is cold,then it can cause you problems. I have come across a few sticking relays in my time. But as i said,i could be way off here,just a quick suggestion. If the relays are the same 2 others in the fuse panel/relay box,swap them over with 2 others and see what happens next time you try start the car. It could even be ECU related? Have fun,and happy hunting.
hey, i have been trying to fix a similar problem on my 308 for a long time now and still have not found THE solution. My car however will always start fine when cold, no matter if she sits for a day or a week....sometimes, i will drive for a while, park, and then when i go start her it will take me forever to get her to fire up... tried all the possible and thinkable solutions...replaced fuse box and all fuses, replaced fuel accumulator, valve, ... cleaned contacts...swapped relays....unplugged 'the blue connector' ... it will be just fine 99.99% of the times and then all of a sudden she will behave funny... other than that, she runs fine. My mechanic tried to fix it but of course the car will NEVER do that when he is working on her.... I just put it down to usual italian car gremlins and not bother with it anymore. In your case, i would try to recharge the battery fully and see if that is enough, it might be as simple as that. Good luck!
This sounds like it might be the classic leaking fuel pump check valve. The fuel pump on a 328 normally doesn't run when you turn the ignition on, until the engine begins sucking air. If you lightly depress the (fragile!) AFM plate, or remove the blue AFM safety connector, with the ignition on and the engine stopped, the pump will begin running. The 328's CIS system runs fairly high fuel pressure, but pumps fuel constantly ("Continuous Injection System") when the fuel pump is running. If you run the pump with the engine off, it will soon flood the intakes with fuel (causing it to be too rich to start). On the 328, the system uses a "safety switch" on the AFM to tell when the engine is pulling air to determine if the engine is running (e.g. consuming fuel). There's a check valve on the fuel pump to keep the fuel pressure from bleeding out of the system when it's off. If that check valve leaks, fuel pressure bleeds off, and the car has trouble starting (too lean). It sounds like you left the car sitting longer than usual, so the fuel pressure may have bled off; and you tried "short bursts", which might not have gotten the pump running enough to restore fuel pressure. Once you pulled the blue connector to start the fuel pump, it started. If it's not a problem starting anytime it's cold, but only if it sits a few days, then it sounds like the check valve isn't something that needs immediate attention yet, but you might need to crank a bit to get the car to start after a stint of disuse. CIS is a bit of an odd duck, as it not only injects fuel continuously, but it also uses fuel as hydraulic fluid for mixture control. The system fuel pressure is rather important (as are control and injector pressures).
Thanks for the input... I dont think its the check valve... but may be.. I have not checked the fuse on the relay down under the trunk... that may do it... it ran all day long, started right up each time once i got it running... I guess the thing that bothers me is that the fuel pump did NOT run with the ignition on and the white connector removed... or the blue one... so dont know what would cause that... this Bosch system sucks... literally and figuratively...on my old 308... I had tons of electrical issues... but they kinda went away after about 3 years of ownership... hope this is not a repeat!
I'm fairly well-acquainted with your 328 schematic, and I believe it's only unplugging the blue safety switch connector and putting the key in the "run" position that should run the fuel pump (not the white connector). If you still have that symptom (no fuel pump operation with safety switch unplugged and key "on"), try swapping a different ...113 relay into the "R" relay position, "relay for fuel pump", and a different ...101 relay into the "S" relay position, "fuel injection delivery pump staring-relay" (you can just temporarily borrow those relays from some of the external lighting functions). Alternatively, if you remove the "R" relay and (with the key "on") touch a jumper wire to connect the 30 terminal in the relay socket to the 87 terminal in the relay socket, this should also run the fuel pump (in the most direct fashion possible). You may have other problems, but you've got to getting these manual test modes working first (and confirm the fuel pump will run). Image Unavailable, Please Login
That's not a "cold start" issue: when the ECU fuse goes, the car runs -- just very very badly. Did you leave it long enough to get "cold"? Is this a "cold" issue, or a "been a while" issue? The blue connector for the fuel pump safety switch is the one directly on the AFM. (There are pictures in a similar thread at http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73463#13, along with descriptions of the fuel pump circuit in boring detail. ) CIS was a pretty slick piece of work, for its day. Remember that when Ferrari started putting CIS on the 308GTSi in 1980, the IBM PC was new and the Apple Lisa was still a couple of years off, and none of the microchips involved were well suited to tolerating automobile climates. For an injection system, it's pretty rugged. Most CIS systems have fared better than the Marelli ignition computers they were teamed with. My biggest objection to CIS (or any of the Bosch systems from the '80s) is the lack of internal diagnostics. The CIS system was pretty "bulletproof" when new, but they are around two decades old now. And it's a palladium-plated @#$% to diagnose when they go wrong. The early L-jet systems were worse -- more sensors to go bad. In "engineer-speak", the CIS has a great MTBF (mean time between failures) but an abysmal MTTR (mean time to repair). By contrast, my '88 Celica AllTrac had an EFI system with internal OBD: jumper a connector under the hood, and the "check engine" light would blink out the error code; look it up in the service guide, and check the indicated problem. But Toyota sells about a zillion times more cars in the US than Ferrari, so they can afford to federalize a new system every couple of years. In the CIS, Ferrari had a known importable system. -- (Hey, Steve. Deja voodoo, eh?)
I went out this morning after the race and put the key in turned it on and voila it started on the first try... so I think this is a its been sitting for a while, with out running... what causes this problem???? Guess I'll be seeing Ron Reineke sooner that I thought I would.
That would either be a sticking relay, in which case it might not recur, or a fuel pressure bleed off issue, in which case it might just take a longer cranking attempt than "short bursts" to fire up. If there's a gas smell after it's been sitting a while, it might also be leaking injectors (or a cold start injector). Getting the perfect mixture for startup immediately after a long period parked on a CIS involves a lot of 20 year old parts. You might want to request a fuel pressure check on your next service. (I checked my system pressure a while back -- it holds for days.) But if it doesn't trouble you again, don't fix what isn't broken. Sounds like your best solution at the moment is to drive the thing as often as you can.
