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328 won't start

Discussion in '308/328' started by Davidindallas, May 1, 2011.

  1. Davidindallas

    Davidindallas Formula Junior

    Nov 5, 2003
    343
    tired to give the car some exercise this am as it's been sitting for about a month and the starter turns but it won't turn over. The battery has been weak (and has been on a trickle charger) but the starter sounded pretty good. I noticed none of the guages or lights did anything (i,e, gas needle or anything else) as the key went to the accessort position, but I can't recall if they're supposed to. I'm pretty sure I had gas. I'm thinking the battery but maybe a relay or fuse? Can anyone remind me what I should be seeing on the dash before she fires up.
     
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  3. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

    Jun 14, 2008
    6,105
    TX//Mexico/UK
    Full Name:
    Mike 996
    "pretty sure" you had gas?

    What does the gauge show? All gauges/warning lights, etc are activated when the key is turned to the on position. Obviously the oil press/temp gauges will not indicate much of anyting when the engine is not running/cold but the fuel gauge should show the fuel level and all the warning lights should illuminate.

    If the battery can crank the engine, there is plenty of power available and everything else should be working...fuses/relays?

    "and the starter turns but it won't turn over"

    Are you saying that the starter spins but the engine does not? If that's the case then the starter is not engaging and needs work.
     
  4. FasterIsBetter

    FasterIsBetter F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2004
    5,844
    NoNJ/Jupiter FL
    Full Name:
    Steve W.
    #3 FasterIsBetter, May 2, 2011
    Last edited: May 2, 2011
    I agree with Mike, what you've described doesn't make sense. As he said, if you have enough juice in the battery to turn the engine over, you should have enough to start. And the dash lights should come on when you turn the key to the run position. In the run position but engine not started, at the very least the dash lights should be on and the gas gauge should show how much fuel you have in the tank.

    When you turn the key to the start position, does the starter motor make a high pitched whirring sound, or does it make more of a rapid clicking sound? If it is a high pitched whirring, and the engine is not turning over, then the throw-out bearing (Bendix?) on the starter is probably shot.

    If it is making a rapid clicking sound and the engine is not turning over, you don't have enough juice from the battery; or if it just clicks once and doesn't turn over, the battery is too weak to do it. In either of those cases, get a new battery.

    If the engine is turning over like it should and it is still not starting, then you need to run through the checklist -- fuel; air; spark. When the engine turns over nice and strongly, your battery is not at fault. You need to look for something else. Do you have fuel? Is the fuel pump working? Is the gas filter clogged? Is there some other reason it is not getting fuel? And spark is easy to check -- just put an inductive timing light on the ignition wires, crank it over, and either you have spark or you don't. If you don't have spark, then you need to hunt that down. Air usually isn't an issue, unless you have a family of squirrels that have taken up residence in the air filter box (don't laugh, I saw it on a Jaguar XJS -- the air filter boxes, one on each bank of the V-12, were completely filled with acorns by an overly industrious squirrel; which is what the owner got for leaving the car sitting untouched for two years).
     
  5. Davidindallas

    Davidindallas Formula Junior

    Nov 5, 2003
    343
    Thanks. I didn't get any lights on the dash (including the gas guage warning I would expect if I were out of gas, but given how the starter sounded (very alive and getting electrons), it's probably a spark or fuel delivery problem. I thought I had plenty of gas last time I drove and I saw no sign of a leak. I guess the simple thing is to start w/ pouring a gallon of 93 octane Shell in the tank and trying again.
     
  6. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    21,409
    Texas
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    #5 Steve Magnusson, May 2, 2011
    Last edited: May 2, 2011
    This is probably a fatal electrical flaw -- if you don't get the dash lights (e.g., alternator light) and gauges to work with the key "on", almost certainly, you are not getting +12V power to run the ignition system (even though the starter motor works OK).
     
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  8. FasterIsBetter

    FasterIsBetter F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2004
    5,844
    NoNJ/Jupiter FL
    Full Name:
    Steve W.
    As I said, when you turn the key to the run/on position, the gas gauge should read the amount in the tank without the engine starting. If you turn the key on and you get nothing on the dash, and the gas gauge doesn't move, there is something wrong.

    Agree with Steve. If no dash lights at all, especially not the alternator/charging light, you have an electrical problem. A good place to start is the fuse block, inside the dash. See if any fuses are blown or if the fuse block shows any signs of "melt-down." Don't simply replace a blown fuse if there is any sign of overheating on the wires. Figure out what the problem is or you could destroy something by just popping in a new fuse and giving it a go.
     
  9. Paul_308

    Paul_308 Formula 3

    Mar 12, 2004
    2,335
    The ignition switch has a run and start position and wiring. In the start position you are able to turn the starter. Voltage from 'run' isn't needed for this, it only feeds the starter and a fuel pump relay. In the run position you have no voltage whatsoever as evidenced by lack of gauges and warning lights. So, your problem is with the ignition switch or the wiring from the switch or within the fuse/relay panel.

    Best I can recommend for now is to jiggle the key from off to run many times to see if the dash lights come on. Unfortunatley there is no easy way to squirt contact fluid into the switch before doing so.

    If nothing, leave the key in the run position and poke/probe around the fuse panel hoping the intermittent shows itself. Once found, the fix can be ominous if the panel is bad. Let's hope for a bad ignition switch or an intermittent connection from the switch perhaps at the connector into the fuse panel.

    Search '328 fuse panel'
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=315881
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=300244
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=186776
    et al
     
  10. Davidindallas

    Davidindallas Formula Junior

    Nov 5, 2003
    343
    Ok, so at long last after multiple tries it took James Patterson dropping me off at home (after I left the 365 at Norwood's for fluid service) to discern the issue. He popped the fuse panel wiggled a couple of wires, took a fuse out and put it back in and did the same with the relay to the fuel pump and, boom, lights on and car fired right up.
     

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