328 WP Continuing Saga | FerrariChat
Buy

328 WP Continuing Saga

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by RussF, Jun 25, 2005.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. RussF

    RussF Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    222
    Washington
    #1 RussF, Jun 25, 2005
    See prior posts for background. Finally got the rebuilt WP-from Italian car parts who were very prompt and helpful with follow up calls-installed after weeks of frustration, started the car let it warm up and I still have the same problem. Coolant dripping down from a frame rail just forward of the passenger side rear wheel. Since I don't have a lift and it appears that the leak is in a pipe between the pump and the radiator I am about out of ideas short of bringing it to a repair shop. I checked the new pump and hoses in the area and nothing in the vicintity is leaking. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
     
  2. wolftalk

    wolftalk Formula Junior

    Jan 27, 2004
    367
    san franciso area
    Full Name:
    phil
    #2 wolftalk, Jun 26, 2005
    hi russ,

    the two most common problems for water appearing over there are:

    1] a hole worn through the aluminum pipe that crosses down from the water pump between the gas tank and the alternator. Check for where it could have been rubbing against pulleys, the alternator belt, or the gas tank. You'll be able to feel a divot in the pipe.

    2] the short rubber hose coupling that pipe to the pipe heading to the front of the car. That hose can get torn due to yanking around the above pipe without loosening the hose clamp first. This hose is a little annoying to get at...to replace it, it's easiest to remove the heat shield(s) between the exhaust and the gas tank+fuel crossover pipe.

    To get the two pieces of the shield completely out, you remove three bolts connecting the shields to the frame, and two bolts holding the two shield pieces together. However, you may be able to just remove the three bolts and move the shield out of the way enough to get at the hose.

    this one is easier than the ones under the plenum, but you need to be under the car, so jackstands are required.
     
  3. RussF

    RussF Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    222
    Washington
    #3 RussF, Jun 26, 2005
    Thanks Wolftalk. Your post was helpful. I cannot think of anything else that would be leaking other than what you described. The new water pump, the new hoses under the plenum and the area around them are dry as a bone.

    A couple of questions:

    1. If it is the pipe that you decribe in 1. can a hole in it be fixed by an appropriate shop or must I by a new pipe.

    2. Unfortunately my gas tanks are about full. Do you know the procedure for draining the tanks which I assume must be done before removing the hose referred to in your point 2. Then to get at the pipe to hose connection I assume that I remove panels on the underside of the car.

    3. Finally, can this be done by backing the car up onto a couple of ramps that I have instead of putting it up on jackstands?

    Thanks again for your help.
     
  4. RussF

    RussF Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    222
    Washington
    #4 RussF, Jun 26, 2005
    I have gotten under the car but have not yet removed the heatshields. Would like to get an idea of where the hose coupling to the metal pipe from the thermostat is. By feel I know there is a rubber sleeve around the pipe as it become horizontal and starts foreward to the radiator. Can someone tell me where then hose coupling might be?
     
  5. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 29, 2001
    18,053
    USA
    #5 f355spider, Jun 26, 2005
    Russ,
    Please fill out your profile, knowing what year your 328 would be helpful.

    Up to about mid 1988, there was another weakness. Said aluminum pipe could contact the air box, wearing a pin hole in the aluminum pipe. The fix is to drain the coolant, and have the pipe welded up. Then sleeve that spot with some radiator hose to protect it from further damage.

    From mid 1988 on, they redesigned the air box to clear the pipe better so there was no chance they would touch.
     
  6. RussF

    RussF Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    222
    Washington
    #6 RussF, Jun 26, 2005
    Dave. Profile updated. Here is the latest.

    The leak is from the pipe out of the thermostat where it runs along the sidof the engine and just before the first hose piece. I looked at the hose which is just before the pipe goes down the center of the underside to the radiator. The part of the pipe where the coolant comes out is the area where there is a rubber sleave over the hose to-I assume-protect it from chafing which seems to make it an unlikely leak point.

    Any thoughts?
     
  7. wolftalk

    wolftalk Formula Junior

    Jan 27, 2004
    367
    san franciso area
    Full Name:
    phil
    #7 wolftalk, Jun 27, 2005
    hi russ,

    I don't quite follow your description (present scotch intake above normal) but in case it helps ...

    There is a hose around the pipe going to the front of the car where it enters the tunnel at the firewall. I'm pretty sure that hose is just padding. If you are seeing a leak there that is not coming along the pipe from the engine compartment, I'd start sweating :-( Seems extremely unlikely that the pipe would fail inside the the tunnel.

    The coupling hose I mentioned in #2 is connecting the pipe segment from the thermostat to the pipe going to the radiator. It's roughly between the alternator and the firewall, close to the gas tank.

    If you are lucky, the problem is just a loose hose clamp...you may be able to get to them without moving/removing the heat shields....depends on their positions on the hose. If the hose is torn, then I'd remove the shields completely to make lots of room (relatively speaking) for installing a new piece of hose.

    To install a new hose, you will have to slide almost all the hose onto one of the pieces of pipe, then line up the pipe ends and slide the hose back onto the other piece of pipe until it's about centered. Lubricating the pipes will make this a lot easier....it's extremely difficult if you don't.

    Oh, and you should loosen the clamp at the thermostat end so that pipe segment can rotate inside that hose without twisting/tearing the rubber. I don't remember if you have to remove the pipe end from the thermostat coupling so you can move the pipe enough to install the new hose.

    You do not need to do anything with the fuel/tanks, but for future reference, there is yet another metal pipe between the two tanks that has a drain plug in it....you'll see it when you are under there. You can also drain the gas from the hose connecting the drivers-side tank to the fuel pump, which is handier if you want to drain the fuel into a container for re-use. Clamp the hose, and remove the end from the fuel pump...only a bit seeps out until you remove the clamp.

    The fuel cross pipe is connected to each gas tank with a hunk of fuel-rated hose at each tank. Check those hoses for deterioration while you are there. I just replaced mine with the goodyear redwing 1-3/8" fuel hose yelcab found ('89 328), but they really didn't need it.

    hope that's slightly coherent.
     
  8. RussF

    RussF Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    222
    Washington
    #8 RussF, Jun 27, 2005
    Final Thought-Got the water pump in and all of the hoses properly connected. Started the car after it had been idle for three weeks and immediatly it started spilling coolant at a couple large drops per second just as it had before I replaced the WP. The coolant was leaking from the aluminum downpipe from the thermostat at the point where the pipe crosses the side of the engine before the hose connection to the pipe running to the radiator. More specifically it was coming from around the area of the pipe where it is surrounded by rubber to protect it. There was no leakage from the WP or any of the hoses that I replaced. What is more curious is that the leakage appeared before the thermostat opened to allow coolant to flow down the pipe!!

    Well I waited a while and restarted the engine and the leakage dropped to one drop every six seconds after the thermostat opened up. Waited overnight and started the engine again and bled the air out of the radiator and now it is all dry as a bone. No leaks whatsoever.

    I can't figure this out but I won't push back on success.!!!!
     
  9. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 29, 2001
    18,053
    USA
    #9 f355spider, Jun 27, 2005
    I am thinking that rubber over the pipe is there not to protect it, but as a "patch" over the pin hole in the pipe....how is that rubber sleeve attached?
     
  10. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
    Consultant Owner

    May 5, 2001
    7,022
    Groton, MA
    Full Name:
    Verell Boaen
    #10 Verell, Jun 29, 2005
    Either the rubber is indeed a patch as davehanda suggests, or else the sleeve got coolant inside of it during the pump replacement & it just drained out.

    While welding is a great way to repair a leak in the Al pipe, there are alternatives. JB Weld will nicely take care of a small leak. Also, there's Al 'welding rod' out there that is really a form of high temp solder. All that's required is a SS brush & propane torch to fix small hole in AL holes. Have used it for A/C pinholes, & some general Al repair. One source is:
    www.eastwoodco.com
    Search for Alumiweld.
    There are 3 kits varying in completenss from just the rod to one with everything you're likely to need except the torch.

    Here's a good how to use Alumiweld link:
    http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?itemID=777&itemType=CATEGORY&iMainCat=688&iSubCat=777
     
  11. RussF

    RussF Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    222
    Washington
    #11 RussF, Jun 29, 2005
    Dave/Verell: I took the car out tonight for the first time and ran it hard and came back. Not so much as a drop had leaked out. I think that Verell was right-some fluid accumulated around or behind the sleeve around the pipe and leaked out. Dave-the sleeve looks like a split hose that is around the pipe where it passes by the gas tank to protect from rubbing against the tank. It is secured by a couple of plastic ties. Looks like it was factory installed.

    As frustrating as the installation of the WP was I am happy to have done it myself. Working with the hoses was the most fdifficult part. If anyone is contemplating this job on a 328 for the first time they should PM me for some advice. Again-thanks to everyone who helped me with this.
     

Share This Page