330/365 GTC

I thought the last couple 330GTC's had the 365 bonnet vents, but may just have read this on the internet somewhere. There is no mention of this in Keith Bluemel's excellent "The Original V12". The text there suggests that all 330GTC's were with side vents, and all 365's were bonnet vents.


Onno

 

I believe Onno's comments are correct but think that some 330s might have gained 365 front ends following accident damage.

This 330 GTC is 11333, a late model just prior to the introduction of the 365 GTC.

John
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Onno.......this was the prototype that we discussed as being built for Sig Pirelli. It is listed as a 330 GTC with a type 245 engine used in the 365. Note the star mag wheels. A few years ago at the FCA Annual Meet in Watkins Glen I met one of the caretakers of this car. He was a judge from NY I believe. He had just sold the car at auction for in excess of $500k. At the time 330 GTCs were in the low 200s in the market. One of a kind car.

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I'm very aware of 11339, which lives very close to me. It is, also, the same as your example. No bonnet vents.

Dear Steve, that car is 10581, from 1967 and I don't see any relation to the 330GTC's built one year later. For me, that car is not a prototype for the 365's, it is just a car to satisfy Signore Pirelli's requests.


Onno

 

SCantera has it almost exactly right. Here's the history: I bought 10581 from Luigi Chinetti, Chinetti Int'l, in Greenwich CT in June 1978. He had bought it in Switzerland from the man who acquired it from Leopoldo Pirelli, Chairman and CEO of Pirelli SpA, and told me that Pirelli had had commissioned the star-mag wheels from Campagnolo, that they were in fact the prototypes for the wheels introduced on the Daytonas. The car was silver/black. A couple of years later I was at an FCA track event at Watkins Glen and on the uphill S-bends following the old pit straight the engine wouldn't pull smoothly. Took the car to Nereo Iori who pulled the cam covers found worn cam lobes and, long story short, he did a complete mechanical resopration of the car, new camshafts, cam followers, adjusting screws, timing gears and chain, bearings, rings, intake and exhaust valves, springs, valve stem seals, resurface valve seats and cylinder heads, complete gasket set, line bored cylibnder block and cams, overhauled Webers, distributor, water pump, essentially a new engine. Ditto the transaxle (new Daytona half-shafts), brakes, suspension. In late 1980s the finish was beginning to orange-peel and I took it to Bill DeCarr's shop in Los Angeles who did a complete metal-up cosmetic restoration in the bordeaux lacquer you see in the photo. In the mid-90s I had cocktails with a lawyer-friend in NYC who was Board chairman of Pirelli-Armstrong whom I told about my car. He asked me to send him a couple of photos as he was going to Milan to see the boss. When he returned he called to say that Pirelli didn't think it was his car since all his Ferraris were either silver or black! I developed a personal correspondence with Sr Pirelli explaining, with photos, that the car had indeed been silver when I bought it. He told me that he had ordered the car directly "from my friend, Enzo Ferrari" who said it would be the forerunner of the forthcoming model 365GTC from 1969. In fact, I have the factory build sheets that designate it a 365GTC and the ID plate in the engine compartment describes the car as "365GTC" so there is no doubt whatever that this is the prototype 365GTC. I sold the car at David Gooding's Pebble Beach auction in summer 2007. The hammer price was $345,000. with buyer's premium, the buyer paid about $380,000. Owned and enjoyed that splendid car for almost thirty years! A 412GT 5-speed kept me in Ferraris until I added a 575M Maranello three years ago. Still miss the GTC!

 

Just love the side vents. Beautiful cars, both the 330 and 365GTC.

 

Very interesting, thanks for that! You learn something everyday. But, of course, 10581 has nothing to do with the 365 bonnet vents, which is what the original question was about.


Onno

 

I would suggest that the nomenclature 365 GTC on the Pirelli-car is purely co-incidental in relation to the later 365 GTC production car. Without knowing the car personally, I suspect that, apart from the obvious changes, all other features are conform a 330 GTC.

 

I am reviving this thread to ask the experts a couple of questions about a "unique" 330 GTC a friend acquired not long ago. I have owned 2 GTCs over 23 years first from 1976 to 1985 the second beginning in 2004 and still in my garage. Accordingly I do know a fair amount about 330 GTCs....at least enough to be dangerous....lol.

My friends car has features I have never seen before. It was a mid 67 build with a s/n beginning with 99__. This car has BOTH the side louvers normal to 330 GTCs and topside hood vents that were installed on the 365 GTCs. Moreover it does NOT have a mechanical fuel pump. It has only an electric fuel pump in the rear. While I could not see the electric fuel pump when the ignition is turned on the pump does not have the normal "click-click-click" sound from the FISPA pump on many GTCs. At some point [after s/n 10700+/_] the FISPA electric pump was changed to a Bendix. Not being able to get under the car I can't verify the electrical pump.

Can anyone verify that there was one or more 330 GTCs with both side and top engine bay vents? Or any 330 GTC that did not have a mechanical fuel pump? My friend wants to make his car "right" but he is new to the vintage Ferrari world and has a steep learning curve in front of him.

Any help with this would be much appreciated.

 

While you are all looking for a conspiracy, I present another possibility.

Back when these cars weren't worth much,. some 330 GTC (side vents) had a front end collision or an engine fire - severe damage to the hood.

Rather than repair hood, owner seeks a new one. He finds a hood that was originally fitted to a 365 GTC or was a spare for a 365 GTC.

He buys and installs the hood and viola - a 330 GTC with both side and hood vents.

The very first 330 GTC to have no side vents and hood vents instead (from new from Pininfarina) was 8727. I owned and restored this car. It was very early car and it was the true prototype for the 365 GTC. Original owner was Sergio Pininfarina - his first owned Ferrari.

 

Not trying to create an issue and certainly not any conspiracy. Just helping a friend learn more about the original as-built specs of the model and his car. I will contact the author of the 330 GTC As-Built and Judging Guidelines Manual to ask if he is aware of any information on this car.

I was curious to learn if the car was an anomaly or as you said a result of a combination of parts available to make repairs to get it back on the road.

I am aware of both your previous Pininfarina prototype and the Pirelli prototype with the 245 engine. My friends car seems like it would have been mentioned here if it was a similar special version. The fact that I am not hearing any confirmation of it’s unique status leads me to think the same as you.

The fuel pump issue doesn’t surprise me at all. Even in perfect condition the mechanical pump is inadequate if the engine gets hot enough. On my own car I replaced the FISPA electric pump with a Holley to insure I don’t get stranded. I keep the originals in safe storage.

Thank you for your candid reply. I will give my friend more guidance to help achieve his goals to make the car “right”.