330 Cams options

Contact DK engineering. They have all sorts of bits and ideas for that kind of job.

 

Hi, Charles
Sounds like a silly question but why would you want to modify the 330 cams? In stock form, the 330s are some of the smoothest, most reliable and user-friendly engines I’ve ever had (I’ve owned 2, serviced many).
The cams are hollow and deliver oil from the rear forward to lubricate the entire valve train(s), including the cam tower bearings. To build up each lobe with weld would not only be very labor intensive but the slightest mistake in straightening, normalizing or stress relieving could lead to microscopic crack formation and eventual failure. A failure of this sort would be disastrous, as it would damage valves, heads and pistons.
Also, increasing the duration might influence the valve-to-piston clearance requiring fly-cutting the pistons.
I’m not sure what the availability of old spares is like but since there were some competition/uprated 330 single cam engines, you might do well in trying to find a set of cams and pistons from one of them. At least you’ll be assured that you are using purpose-built and properly engineered parts. You might even find a six-carb setup for it. Now, THAT would really dress up a 330 engine compartment.
Just my thoughts.
Bob Z.

 

I agree with Bob.

How about finding a little more power with a higher compression ratio?

 

BAD IDEA. Really BAD IDEA

2 Reason

- Welded on camshaft dilemna
- design change

Tom Shaughnessy
(KISS principal advocate)

 

I have had several cams done this way by Web Cam in Riverside, CA. They have also done work for several shops, and have a long list of grinds for Ferrari. The work is excellent, and cost/turnaround time is reasonable. The finished product has been extensively dyno tested by me, and no complications have resulted. They are at 909-369-5144.

As for pistons, JE follows the same story. Call Randy there as he's done several sets for me. Top notch quality, custom specs, and reasonable cost.

 

I asked that question at my regular shop; their best answer was new pistons, and then it gets into if you do that, you might as well rebuild the engine. Even if it's entirely doable on these engines, I personally wouldn't want to mess with originality by milling down the cylinder heads. I also asked about thinner head gaskets and I think the answer was they're about as thin as possible now (the cylinder heads have never been off my engine) and that's a lot of work for a small result.

My mechanic's answer regarding performance tweaks for street V12 Ferraris is that there basically aren't any other than just making sure the engine is sound as-is and keeping it set up to factory specs and in optimum tune; it's already got what would be basic non-invasive addon hotrod stuff like true exhaust headers, "three deuces", and dual exhaust, as well as the unique dual ignition system. He did mention electronic ignition but also said if it's not broke now, why fix it and mess with originality.

To sum up, the way I heard it there is little middle ground between factory street setup and big mods like high compression pistons, track grind cams, and six carbs, and as long as you're at it, rebuild everything else.

Your question was directed at Bob Z.; apologies for interrupting. I'd like to hear his opinion on all this as well.

 

Results based upon my experience with my latest 365GTB/4 engine overhaul:
10.25:1 JE pistons
Cams reground to "P6"
Heads checked and modifed on flow bench
Larger diameter European tuned headers
Larger idle, main, and accelerator pump jets in carbs
Velocity stacks
Three angle valve grind
409 HP @ 6800 rpm vs. stock 352
It worked very nicely, with 16% HP gain, but was expensive.

 

Elgin Camshafts already have cams for the 330. Dema makes the best cams period. Don't use anyone else.

http://www.elgincams.com/

They have the following for Ferrari:

FERRARI PROFILES

We have the following stock masters for regrinding Ferrari cams. If you do not see your model listed below, we can still regrind your Ferrari cams but please allow another week.


250 GT

250 GTE, LUSSO

275 GTB4

1966 275 GTS, GTB

1963-7 330 GT 2+2

1966-8 330 GTC, GTS

168-71 365 GT 2+2, GTC, GTS
365 GTB/4 DAYTONA

DINO V6 206 & 246

308 1975-77 THERMAL REACTOR

308 1978-82 2 VALVE CARB. & F.I.

308 1983-85 4 VALVE

512BB BOXER CARB., 512BBi BOXER F.I.

PERFORMANCE GRINDS AVAILABLE FOR NEARLY ALL FERRARI CAMS. WELDING IS OFTEN REQUIRED. CALL FOR SPECIFICS.

 

I say go for it! The tomyang group and others talked me out of a similar agressive cam/6 carb modification on my 330 a few months ago, but I've still secretly longed for more power. And the sound - oh, the sound!!!

So now I'm waiting patiently for someone else to show the way, and post the results. ;^)

Are the cams interchangeable with a 330 GTO? 330 LM? (there's probably a cheapee one of those just lying around somewhere you can part out).

 

I have Dave GOldsmith's manual for the 330/365 in a 308 project. FWIW, he states:
"Daytona profiles are not transferrable [to single cam engines], nor are they radical enough to represent much of a gain"

"Your factory stock cam will have at best 9mm lift (many measure, after some wear 8.5 to 8.8mm) and, at most, a 272-degree duration (some measure as little as 252 degrees [note, he goes on to explain these are at zero lash]). These specifications are mild."

Those who have driven my car describe the cam timing and performance as ideal. This profile, designed expressly for the 330/365 single-cam engines by Dimitri Elgin, utilizes a 10mm lift (at the valves) and a 294 degree duration [after valve lash is taken up]; in other words, very close to factory racing specification." [Note, the duration at zero lash is 305 degrees].

Hope this helps
Philip

 

FYI, this is an extract from page 18 of Dave Goldsmith's manual.

 

No, but call Elgin and they can help you out for sure.

 

We have used Webcams many times in the past.infact I am presently working on a Daytona that had a bad lobe on an ex cam and they repaired it.They do quality work and we have had no problems with them.

 

You may want to double check the phasing of their cams. I.E. check the timing of each lobe center in respect to TDC of each cylinder, also check the Rockwell Hardness.....you may not be all that thrilled afterwards.

Just an FYI. I've used them many times too primarily on street engines.....but quality control has been unsatisfactory the past few years. We have never had the problems with Elgin and our racing cams. Now we are getting our street profiles from Elgin as well.

Some people like Chevy's some like Fords....I guess.........

 

Call Dave Generas (sp?) at Cam Techniques in Florida and see if he has any camshaft blanks for the 330. I know he has a collection of first generation masters (I sent him the cams from every one of the race cars to have them made) of the lobe profiles for the 250GTO, TdF's........ and years back we were in on having Dave make a batch of high quality blanks to reproduce the 250 high lift cams. Dave's cams never presented any problems at all, and they were used and abused to the Nth degree (I always wanted a tell tale tach on the SWB's and GTO just to see what RPM was really seen coming onto the front straight a Laguna). When it comes to one off cams Dave is my "go to guy" as he will take the time to discuss the project as a whole. The last set he did for me was from an IMSA 348 Race car and with in minutes he was able to tell me they were based on an Indy engine profile. That just comes from experiance!
Each engine builder has their own cam design professional he trusts, thats how it goes in racing. As Dave Moore stated, Elgin has been doing cam design for Many years and has a terrific reputation in the racing industry. I am into a GT-40 / Cobra engine now which has an Elgin cam (early 60's era) which was way ahead of the others in design for the time.
To take full advantage of the EFI conversion will take some thought when it comes to cam design. As we found on the 250 engines, there is a fine line on raising compression ratio's where the HP curve flattens out, only a slight gain in torque is seen and longevity and driveabilty is sacrificed. Hemi cams, combustion chamber design and piston shape present unique challanges when modifying an engine for street use.
Dave

 

I'm pretty sure Roelofs do 330 cams:
www.roelofsparts.com

 

I'm very interested in your plight and out come to achieve your desired results. Keep us posted and this thread alive. I'd love to find a 6 carb setup with the proper cam mod.

 

Have you lost your mind

Guess it is your first car


KISS principal

keep it simple stupid (no offense)