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330 gtc price pressure

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by agrun, Nov 12, 2018.

  1. agrun

    agrun Formula Junior

    May 24, 2009
    657
    FLA
    since the 330 gtc market has risen so swiftly and then declined, what is the conventional wisdom on how much lower the market will go, 10%, 20, 30%? i have been looking to buy one. while i don't expect to catch the bottom, prefer not to make an awful mistake in a falling market.

    also, s/n 9955 is coming up at mecum, but hasn't been driven in several years and has made the rounds in the auction circuit. also, not sure that red is the most flattering color on a gtc, which seems to look its best in greys and blues
     
  2. nis1973

    nis1973 Formula Junior

    Jan 19, 2013
    360
    NYC/CT
    Maybe it’s bottomed out? Find the right car and pay the market price. I think that’s better than getting the wrong car in the right market. Based on your comments it sounds like the mecum car isn’t the right one for you so let it go...
     
  3. 375+

    375+ F1 Rookie
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    Dec 28, 2005
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    In a soft market buy a car that needs nothing, and offer a price that makes sense to you.
     
  4. agrun

    agrun Formula Junior

    May 24, 2009
    657
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    not as many cars out there to choose from and reluctant to buy out of country
     
  5. 375+

    375+ F1 Rookie
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    PM sent.
     
  6. Sergio Tavares

    Nov 15, 2018
    13
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    Sergio Tavares
    What is the price range for GTC now?
     
  7. agrun

    agrun Formula Junior

    May 24, 2009
    657
    FLA
    475-750, unless a one off car
     
    375+ likes this.
  8. TTR

    TTR Formula 3
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    Timo
    ... and a car closer to 475(?) can easily require another 250-300 (at minimum ?) to reach 750 range.

    Condition, condition, condition, ...
    ... as with everything else in life, low price may not equate to best or even good value.


    While following is not specifically about a 330 GTC or any other Ferrari model, I'm sure dozens (or thousands ?) of similar (horror?) stories could be found relating to just about any make & model vintage car, their restorations or services. This one just happens to be the latest I'm somewhat familiar with:

    A presumably adequately heeled & mature(?) enthusiast decided to acquire a relatively rare (less than 700 made with likely less than 100 existing today) 60 year old vintage car, of which supposedly at least three examples were found available with (asking) prices ranging from 75 to 175.

    Apparently said enthusiast focused (only?) on the lowest priced example, available from a "classic (used) car dealership" and, after first hiring a 3rd party PPI, then flying 2500+ miles (each way) to personally inspect it (+ paying PPI inspector extra to be also present at that time), ended up buying it.

    PPI had produced a list of about 12-15 minor(?) issues, half relating to aesthetic/cosmetic detail concerns, like few missing or poor condition trim pieces (yet they ALL need refurbishment to match each other ???), rest to smaller(?) electrical & mechanical things like some dash/interior lights, horn, power antenna or radio not working or couple of anti-sway bar bushings falling apart and rough idle, for which suggested(?) cure was replacement of points & condenser (!?!).
    Freaking carburetor float bowls turned out to be half filled with rust powder from fuel tank, etc... !!!

    Wishing to have all these issues sorted before shipping the car 2500+ miles to its new home, where the enthusiast supposedly has no "go-to" restoration/service contacts and not quite confident with sellers offer to address these, an independent restoration shop with experience on the given make/model was contacted.

    Being acquaintance of the PPI inspector, "the shop" owner (somewhat reluctantly) accepted the job to sort out the (at that time still unfinshed/vague) list of "issues" estimated by PPI inpector (without consulting "the shop") taking 20-25 hrs and with parts/supplies included perhaps costing a total of 3-4 to accomplish.

    Soon after receiving and inspecting the car, "the shop" discovered numerous far more detrimental reliability & safety related electrical & mechanical problems than the "PPI list" included, but after providing an in-depth advise/consultation of estimated costs, time delays + potential pitfalls & "worse-case-scenarios" involved with an endeavor of this magnitude to (new to "shop") client, a green light to proceed was received.

    So far, couple of months and 15+ has been spent to remedy several of these major problems, most caused by seriously deferred maintenance, previously performed "butcher/hack-job" repair/service attempts and just utter neglect, with few still remaining unfinished and 2-3 more has been discovered during the process...

    ... and even if only focusing on absolutely minimal (but professional) efforts to sort all these existing & newly discovered reliability and safety related electrical & mechanical "issues", another 10-20 (at bare minimum !!!) will be required and in the end(?), the car will still look like its barely, if even, worth that initial "purchase price" (+/-75 ?) and would easily require over 100 to make its aesthetic appearance anywhere near the higher priced/valued examples.

    * I know couple of others, both probably in much better shape than any aforementioned examples and each could propably be had near the high range of (asking) prices.
     
    Texas Forever likes this.
  9. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Apr 28, 2003
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    When I sold mine in 2008 for $200,000, it needed at least another $250,000 in work to be a solid number 2 car. This explains why I sold it.
     
  10. donv

    donv F1 World Champ
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    Jan 5, 2002
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    TTR, your story sounds a lot like my Mercedes 280SE Coupe! Been there, done that.

    That said, I know you can get a LOT of work done on a vintage Ferrari for $25-50k. If the car is running and driving, I find it hard to imagine that you can't make it a safe and reliable car for $50k, except possibly if you need a complete engine rebuild (which you should be able to figure out with a PPI). Maybe not at a gold-plated Pebble Beach class restoration shop, but a 330GTC isn't a Pebble Beach car either.

    I think the bigger issue is that, for most people, if they spend half a million on a car, they want it to look like a half million dollar new car, not a 50 year old beater straight off a used car lot. That's why they spend so much money on them. And taking it to that next level is what really costs the money.
     
  11. TTR

    TTR Formula 3
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    Timo
    I hear you. As I mentioned in my previous post, these kinds of "stories" are far more common than many realize.
    Based on 40+ years of personal involvement with and observations of this hobby, I'd say for every "happy" vintage car ownership/purchase/restoration/etc. experience, there are dozens, if not hundreds (or perhaps even thousands?) of "not so happy" or dare I say "horrifying" ones, most of which we rarely hear or read about.
    I alone could fill a book or two with ones I'm familiar with.

    As I also mentioned, PPI was commissioned and it was conducted by a licensed(?) appraisers with lifelong hands-on experiences both as a vintage car enthusiast/owner/rebuilder/restorer (of numerous examples) and 30+ year professional career in (daily driver/modern) automobile repair/service industry.
    Having only seen the list of recommended correction/issues, not the entire report PPI produced, I'd say it missed or overlooked more than few major and obvious problems.
    I mean the car came in "running and driving", but now in hindsight, nearly impossible to comprehend how.
    Even after 15+ spent in 2+ months with noticeable (technical) improvements, the (poor) car could clearly still benefit from at least complete mechanical (& electrical) restoration to make her "a safe and reliable car".

    I know more than few 50+ year old (unrestored) vintage cars valued near or more than half a million with an appearance, if not quite that of an "old beater straight out of a used car lot", but which to "most people" (including many so called "car guys") would probably look pretty close to worthless.

    These kinds of cars are what I often categorize something for true classic/vintage car connoisseurs able to appreciate their untouched (un-messed with ?) originality offering a direct and real connection to history, including individuals, places and times that created them. Definitely not your average collectibles.

    I couldn't tell how many times I've seen so called "car guys", incl. Ferrari or other exotic enthusiasts, walking past some rare, even one-off vintage cars without acknowledging it at all, but running back to "appreciate" it once learning of its perceived "value". :rolleyes:
     
    Texas Forever likes this.

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