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330 GTC Steering box oil level

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by fasthound, Aug 12, 2021.

  1. fasthound

    fasthound Formula Junior
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    Nov 23, 2003
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    OK, so the manual says to check the steering box oil level, but I have no idea how high the level is supposed to be. How high should it be? Should it be up to the bottom of the filler hole? Lower? Should the level be checked warm or cold?

    Also, the manual calls for Shell Spirax EP 140 oil. Is standard 85W-140 gear oil OK?

    Thanks in advance!
     
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  3. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula 3
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    Just below the bottom of the filler hole COLD. You really need the straight 140 wt, as the 85/140 will probably leak from the lower seal.
     
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  4. fasthound

    fasthound Formula Junior
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    Thank you. I’ve ordered some 140wt which will be here tomorrow. I won’t be driving the car before that as the level of oil in the box is certainly low. Between having to add a gallon of fluid to the radiator and THREE quarts of oil and the very low oil level in the steering box on the car as delivered, I have to wonder about how well this car was maintained over the last year before sale. And the front wheel bearings were loose as well. Easy stuff to have taken care of prior to sale. Can’t blame the prior owner as he was unfortunately killed over a year ago in an accident. But the seller certainly didn’t do anything to make sure the fluids were checked, etc. before listing the car. Yet again another reason to do a very thorough PPI.

    I will certainly make sure the car is properly maintained and driven regularly while under my care.
     
  5. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula 3
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    Kevin: Your comment about "loose" front wheel bearings concerns me. There is no adjustment in those bearings. If they are truly "loose", they are worn out. Replacing them is not an easy job, and you should carefully study the parts book before you try to do it yourself.
     
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  6. fasthound

    fasthound Formula Junior
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    I just tightened the hub nuts and took care of the looseness. And yes, I retracted the brake pads and made sure there was absolutely zero drag and the discs could spin easily after tightening. And they aren’t making any noise and are fully grease packed. I think the hub nuts had simply not been torqued properly. But the car will be going into Competizione soon enough and they will check every freaking nut and bolt to make sure all is good. And if the bearings have to be replaced, they will replace them. I’ve been going through the car and replacing missing nuts and bolts here and there….mostly trim or other minor bits such as a heat shield missing an attachment bolt…simple stuff. And there are some easy things to address like a choke cable that isn’t secured (and the gauge of the wire is too small anyway). All minor stuff so far. But I plan to have the shop check everything and we will put together a priority list and work though it. I’m reasonably mechanically competent and have a lift in my garage, so can do a lot of maintenance myself, but want true Ferrari mechanics to go through the car and then go over it all with me and then they get to do the hard stuff and I get to do the easy stuff. So far I haven’t found anything that would compromise safety or potentially damage any mechanicals other than the aforementioned fluid levels. Hydraulic fluids are fine and all oil, fuel, water, hydraulic fittings and lines seem fine. And I check the car before and after each drive.
     
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  8. fasthound

    fasthound Formula Junior
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    My 32oz bottle of 140wt arrived, so I started filling the steering box….very slowly since I had no idea how much oil was in it. The box has a capacity of 0.4 liters, and I added almost 0.35 liters to get to the bottom of the filler opening, so it was almost empty. Ugh!! I am surprised I hadn’t had noise coming from the box. I just did a 20km run (it’s a Euro model with km speedo) and nothing oozed through the breather hole in the nut, so that’s good. Will recheck level cold in the morning. Will also check for leaks in the box bottom seal, etc. but there was no evidence of any leaking before I added the oil today, so don’t expect any leaks.

    I could swear the steering felt better, but could just be my imagination?
     
  9. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
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    romano schwabel
    but where was the oil when you could fill up around 0,35 ltr?
    after 20 km the oil in this steering box is not even warm. you may drive minimum 100 km to see if it will leak or not
     
  10. fasthound

    fasthound Formula Junior
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    I will have to go back and check receipts, but I believe the steering box seals were replaced and my guess is they didn’t properly refill the box. And in over 100km I’ve put on the car, I’ve seen no leaks, but that could be because it had all leaked out already? I will keep an eye on it. Leaks should be easy to spot.
     
  11. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

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    if your steering box get damaged it is not a matter of the oil - oil is not inside anymore ;) :)
     
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  13. TTR

    TTR F1 Rookie
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    Have you already offered feedback regarding all this on the original BaT listing thread for the car ?
    You know, to help future bidders/buyers (& sellers) be more aware and cautious.
     
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  14. fasthound

    fasthound Formula Junior
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    I don’t wish to get into a public pissing contest with the seller. He and I went round and round and I talked to lawyers and so did he. I believe the bottom line is buyer beware. That’s not new advice, of course.

    What I did do was post this on the currently listed 330 GTC BAT auction:

    “No matter the level of detail of presentation (and this is a class leading example of a nice presentation IMHO), a serious buyer should consider a detailed PPI if they are unable to see the car in person, or even if they are. I wish I’d had a detailed PPI done before I bought #9911 on BAT in June. There are quite a few issues with the car that were not detailed by the seller. All fixable, but some are rather annoying. Had I paid for a detailed PPI (spend $1000, not $250), I honestly don’t know if I would have dropped out of the bidding, but at least I would have had a better idea of what I was getting into. I LOVE the 330 GTC I bought, and I will get everything fixed/corrected over time, but a PPI is never a bad idea, especially with a 50+ yo car. This one is a beauty and the seller is providing a lot of information, including detailed photos of the paint issues, and I applaud the seller for this level of detail. That not withstanding, if you are considering bidding this car to over $550-600K+ which is where I believe it will end up, a $1000 investment up front is pennies on the dollar and provides peace of mind. Just my two cents worth. These are truly the epitome of luxury GT cars of the era and are a pleasure to drive. They are also a pleasure to just sit and look at as rolling artwork/sculptures. I admit to spending time in the garage in a chair with a single malt scotch just staring at my car. Someone is going to get a very nice unmolested car here. They are only original once. And it’s easier to maintain them in original condition than to try to take them back to original condition after they have been modified.”

    And I know at least two potential bidders have asked for a PPI.
     
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  15. TTR

    TTR F1 Rookie
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    Well done.
    I will raise a glass of 12 y.o. Glendronach and light up one of the nice(?) cigars I just received a box of yesterday from a gentleman in AUS to whom I sold a super nice, unmolested/-restored/-painted/etc 35 year old car with only 18.5K miles on it about a month ago.
    Cheers !

    P.S. Looks and sounds like yours is a wonderful example, regardless. Congrats !
     
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  16. fasthound

    fasthound Formula Junior
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    #13 fasthound, Aug 22, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2021
    So, bolt #39 was loose. Not so loose that I could turn it by hand, but it had backed out about 1/4”. So, it’s now nice and snug, but the head is drilled for safety wire, and I see nothing to wire it to? Perhaps someone just replaced the original with a drilled bolt? Can someone check their setup and see if theirs is a safety wire bolt and if so what is it wired to? BTW, is there a torque spec for this bolt or is “snug as hell” OK?

    Thanks!

    Also found a torn boot on a tie rod ball joint, so there’s yet something else to be replaced.
     

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  17. Jumprun

    Jumprun Karting

    Feb 7, 2012
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    I belive you are referring to the pinch bolt 39 on TAV 35, the steering support?
    Mine is drilled for lock wire too, but no wire is in place. coincidently I recently needed to loosen mine to raise the steering box up. That is a worrisome bolt to be loose, it would put a lot of load on the single bolt 27 that secures the box from above. Interestingly that bolt uses what appears to be a castle nut, 29, but mine is actually a split top locking type nut. Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  18. fasthound

    fasthound Formula Junior
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    Yes, the pinch bolt. The “jaws” the pinch bolt were securing were tight and had not loosened from what I could tell. Once the bolt was seated again, and I torqued it down, I could not perceive any movement of the “jaws”.

    My nut on bolt #27 is like yours. And it’s nice and tight.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  19. enio45

    enio45 Formula 3
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    TOM - why did you have to loosen your box to "raise it UP" - what determined this?
     
  20. Jumprun

    Jumprun Karting

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    I needed to raise the box up to remove the left upper front “A” arm suspension bolt, this worked great for me but I understand that the steering shaft can get rusted to the housing with the pinch bolt, making this method difficult.
     
  21. Jumprun

    Jumprun Karting

    Feb 7, 2012
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    View attachment 3193269 [/QUOTE]
    The suspension bolt that needs the steering box out of the way to remove is the one on the lower left in this picture…this pic only shows the nut-end of this bolt.
     
  22. enio45

    enio45 Formula 3
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    Oh yes, now i remember this discussion in the thread........
     
  23. 330BRC

    330BRC Karting

    May 4, 2007
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    On the steering box lubricant: The interface between the adjustment peg and the worm gear is an extremely high wear area. I added a small amount of molybdenum lube oil to help reduce wear on the adjustment peg and worm gear. I can’t really tell if it has an effect, but there is a slight “notchy” feel coming out of the steering box that I can’t adjust out. It hasn’t gotten any worse.
     
  24. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian F1 Rookie

    Jul 1, 2004
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    Brian, I would take off the ZF cover and under a good light look for any flaws, while rotating the steering shaft. If you can't spot anything, suspect the bearing(s). Good luck.

    john
     
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  25. enio45

    enio45 Formula 3
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    maybe a new taper pin would help as well - i believe, those taper bearings are NLA? Anyone more familiar on the bearing situation?
     
  26. 330BRC

    330BRC Karting

    May 4, 2007
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    John - An open and inspect of the box makes total sense before jumping to conclusions.
    Thanks for the input.
     

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