330 LMB 4619SA

Totally different car, I saw that one in New Orleans.......not a LMB at all...that is "TRI", not a 1

 

That's what I meant. That it's not an LMB. What car did you see in New Orleans?

 

I would assume that it was s/n 808 when owned by Jim Spiro.

 

phunny... after the Jalopnik story went viral on the internet all around the world, no one connected to the stolen Ferrari 330 LMB 4619 has challenged the validity of their claim to the car. The current custodian's lineage to the car must be based on forged documents generated as part of the theft in 1977 and did not exist before that date. The theft remains open and active with the authorities. Custodians of the car must know their claims to ownership are weak and based on bogus documentation... What other reason to act like whimps and hide. There are many reasons ($$$) to clear things up...

 

I think it a bit hasty to jump all the way to that conclusion. I do not expect that the general group of us would know if there are non-public efforts transpiring in the background. With the Atlanta based cast of characters it is also possible that not all claims are necessarily to be taken at face value.

Jeff

 

I've resisted the temptation to chime in, as I really don't have a lot to add. Dyke, you are right about this one being the one that got away. I had this car in my grubby hands for a while when it was in transit between Charlie Hayes (dealer and sometime racer) and Don Fong (excellent Ferrari mechanic and eventual felon). As I have written before, it had all the best attributes of a 250GTO, but with more torque and insulation. Maybe one of the sweetest cars I have ever driven, and I've driven a few. I wonder if you would have kept it forever (unlike me, the stupid flipper)? And Jeff, I agree with you. We don't know all the facts, but we do know that Fong (according to public record) did some goofy things with customers' (and/or his own?) cars. Interesting that it went through the hands of some highly respected people; they must have had some sort of title, wouldn't you think?

 

Ed: As to keeping it forever, we still have our first GTB, bought in 1972. I agree that we should not declare anybody guilty in the court of public opinion. I know that the car had a legit Georgia title when I looked at it. Ed, you are correct, in that a number of honest, up front people have owned this car over the years, without any title difficulties. In still find it curious that all this happens only after the car has achieved vast monatery value.

 

My apologies for asking such a vulgar question, but what is the price of a 330 LMB today?

 

what's vulgar about asking about potential value of a car... this forum is full of questions asking for price... the downside is there are only 4 cars... all the wags attach value to race history... with only 3 cars that raced and for a very limited time ( the 250 GTO were done, the newer paradigm of design was not in place, the 330 LMB was an interim effort until the new cars were ready to race... they outperformed the then dated 250 GTO, but to no real joy ) , not even enough to sort out a car even by today's standards, most are miopic about race history adding value don't give proper credit to the 330 LMB's significant place in the Ferrari history... they should trade with the best of the GTO or more, but don't... Hagarty Insurance values the cars at $14,000,000 area... who knows where they actually trade, as sales have been private and the true sales price often is not disclosed

 

It's only now that I hear about this "so called theft".
I owned the car, bought it legally from the US with a US title. We used it in various places, even put it in an auction in Geneva, where it didn't sell.
What was said earlier is a load of crap.....
It was the only 330 LMB (of course alu-bodied) that never raced and therefore 100% original, even the wheels have always been with the car.
If it was supposed to have been stolen, the man who claims this has had 20+ years and many opportunities to claim his car back. I guess he sold it for cash, never declared the cash receipt, and now claims that he still owns the car. Probably closer to tax fraud than theft.....

 

It is very strange that, as a previous owner who bought the car from a dealer in the US (Mark Smith, who I think acted on behalf of the then-owner), nobody ever contacted me about the paperwork of the car.....
In fact today is the first time I hear about all of this!
Most likely the claimant uses very funny "proof" to convince the FBI that the car was stolen from him......even at the time we bought it this was a multi-million dollar car. If it was stolen, why wait 20 years to try and get it back through the FBI.......

 

who's poopin' who...

the Jalopnik article shows a title that predates the theft by a few years, a second title was created using false documents under suspicious circumstances... the second title does not establish a continuous line of ownership back to original owners back to Ferrari, but creates a new line of claimants starting with the issue date coinciding with the theft which according to the US courts all are receipients and sellers of stolen property ( also confirmed in posts above as that title cannot be conveyed on stolen property )...

in the US there is no statue of limitations on the recovery of stolen property, one only needs to prove their loss.

according to the documents presented in the press and public forums and according to the findings by the US judicial system it appears any current or former custodian may have bought / received / held custody of stolen property and sold said stolen property. The US courts have a warrant for the authorities to pick up the car on sight, it is listed as being stolen in the US crime computer.

In the US judicial system those who have bought stolen property can recover their loss from whom they bought the car all the way back to the thief...kind of like dominos falling in reverse. Who ever bought the stolen car can go back to the seller and demand their money back, since a thief CANNOT convey legal title... there could be a long line of claimant trying to recover their purchase price...

been following this theft in the press for a while, my bet would be with the US judicial system, not on some documents that were falsely manufactured as determined by the US courts

anyone know who has custody and where the car is... call the FBI.... anyone know if there is a reward for information leading to recovery, could be a nice chunk of change at current prices

 

It says in Jack Sears' autobiography that 330 LMB #4725SA, which was raced by him and Mike Salmon at Le Mans 1963 to 5th OA and 1st IC, had a partly steel body.

Gentleman Jack: The Official Biography of Jack Sears - Graham Gauld - Google Books

 

No one in the forum named the leader of Samsung. Is it the chairman of the Samsung Group, Lee Kun-hee,? Forbes rated him at number 106 on Forbes’ list of the world’s top billionaires, with a reported net worth of $8.3 billion.
Forbes also says there is a lawsuit from the other heirs of his father's fortune,
the stock worth around $877 million. At any rate, it sounds like if this Ferrari ownership battle goes to court, Donald Fong won't be able to afford the lawyer that Kun-hee can...

 

To me a 330LMB is more desirable than a 250GTO and should be more valuable...more rare, faster (both of which are objective) and more beautiful (admittedly subjective). The GTO has a better racing record but that owes mainly to its greater numbers and longer competitive life due primarily to available venues and homologation rules.

..not that I'll ever have a hope of owning either!

 

that is what one would think, add to it the rarity of only 4 cars would add to value... just checked on the car, Hagerty Valuation tool has raised their value to $ 33,500,000.00 in their latest semi annual review in September... still listed as STOLEN in NCIC ( US crime computer ) with an updated court order / warrant to pick up on sight... the authorities are still active looking for it. Samsung's Kun Hee Lee has been in the news recently with bad health. One would think there would be efforts to reconcile the ownership issues with resources quoted in the Billions. Barchetta.cc has Blackhawk (formerly Behring ) having car on display there for a number of years and allegedly to be previous owner and seller to Lee.
Been following the hide and seek game of 4619SA for a while, nothing but crickets since it disappeared from display at the Blackhawk a couple years back. The current custodians are concealing stolen property. Guessing it would be a more entertaining thread than the thread about 375+ 0384. The list of characters in play is long and goes back to 1977. The main question is why hide the car when the custodians have unlimited resources to defend their claim. Only plausible reason is they do NOT have a valid claim. It's been a few years since the car went underground, it is interesting that no one has alerted the authorities as to who / where the car is. Has anyone seen a posting of a reward for info leading to its' capture. There should be someone out here that can blow the lid off this car and create a new thread to read.

 

So you hire some ex-Special Forces guys, you create a diversion, then while everybody's busy with that, take a heavy lift helicopter, land it (or hover ) in front of the garage, blow the doors, roll the car out on top of a cargo net
hook up the cargo net, roll the car onto it, and hoist away.The owner is hardly going to yelp because he was holding stolen property...now let's see who would play the lead, Stallone is too old, VinDiesel too ugly, maybe Jason Statham ...and of course Jennifer Lawrence has to be the gal that distracts the billionaire...

 

works for me... only one problem, need to know which garage door to blow off... no one has leaked where the car is hidden...

 

I owned 4619 SA . I bought it from Bill Wiehl in late September 1968. I also bought 0170ET from Bill in November 1972. I sold 4619 to Kirk F. White in 1970. I also owned 4453 SA that I bought from Ed Jurist who owned the Vintage Car Store in 1966. I traded it back to Ed in in
1968 for a Bugatti Type 57 SC Coupe Atalante and a 300 SL roasdter just before I bought
4619. I understand the 4619 has been stolen ! Strange this world of art , collectible cars and rich guys! I owned these cars when owning them meant driving them on a daily basis and having fun long before the car shows got fancy !

 

sab4480: I just sent you a Private Message.

 

Go to the Japolnik web site. It won't answer all your questions but is some first hand reporting. tongascrew

 

Very interesting story....




PDG

 

$33 Million Dollar Ferrari Alleged Stolen, a Feature Story by Wallace Wyss

Very nice article.

$33 Million Dollar Ferrari Alleged Stolen, a Feature Story by Wallace Wyss | The Car Build Index

 

To me the 330LMB should be more valued than the 250GTO....more rare, faster and more beautiful than the GTO. The last is admittedly subjective, but the first two are facts. The GTO does have the advantage of a much more successful sporting record, but this could be largely attributed to its greater numbers, and the vagaries of racing regulations and available venues. For sure, the sight of an LMB being hustled around Goodwood by someone who knows what he's doing is unforgettable.

Thanks for posting the link.