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330 P4 at 2014 Paris Retromobile

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Thomas Bucher, Feb 9, 2014.

  1. Thomas Bucher

    Thomas Bucher Rookie

    Feb 5, 2009
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    Thomas Bucher
    Can anyone enlighten me on the Ferrari 330 P4 on display at the 2014 Paris Retromobile show? Is it an authentic Ferrari 330 P4 and if so, what is the chassis number. I read that the chassis number is 0858, but that car is presently in the form of a barchetta (whatever your opinions are about the Telacrest "restoration." I'm confused.
     
  2. 275gtb6c

    275gtb6c Formula 3
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    Hi Thomas,

    Quite some info on the vintage part of this forum...see the thread:


    David Piper restores the Talacrest P4

    Ciao
    Oscar
     
  3. Thomas Bucher

    Thomas Bucher Rookie

    Feb 5, 2009
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    Thomas Bucher
    Ok. I'm missing something - duh! I cannot find any information about the 2014 Paris Retromobile and the Ferrari 330 P4 on display there except for some pictures of some models there which are nice, but not what I'm looking for. What am I missing?
    Tom Bucher
     
  4. El Wayne

    El Wayne Global Moderator
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  5. Vincent Vangool

    Vincent Vangool Formula 3

    Oct 6, 2007
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    That's due to it is only recently the Paris Retromobile 330P4.

    Not but a short time ago the Retromobile 330 P4 was the automobile formerly known as 350 can Am.

    It was once a Ferrari P4 but that was a long, long, long time ago.

    I warn you now. There is probably more then you want to know about this car in the thread titled:

    David Piper restores the Talacrest P4
     
  6. RP

    RP F1 World Champ

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    #6 RP, Feb 10, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  7. andymont

    andymont Formula Junior

    May 16, 2007
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    Andrea M.
    Never a P4 car could have been carried on that truck, since this 642 RN2 Fiat transporter (one of the two owned by Ferrari) has been sold in 1965.
    Considering also the history of that car, we can say the picture show a fabrication of history ...

    Ciao

    Andrea
     
  8. RP

    RP F1 World Champ

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    Of course, but it made for a great photo.
     
  9. gt4me

    gt4me F1 Veteran
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    Spot on, let's keep things in perspective.
     
  10. Thomas Bucher

    Thomas Bucher Rookie

    Feb 5, 2009
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    OK, I weeded through this entire verbal pissing match about wether 0858 should have been converted to a P4 or not, who should have supervised the conversion and who actually did it using what methods. The arguments seem to be somewhat esoteric if not impassioned and nearly libelous at times. That said, I still do not know if the Ferrari on display at the 2014 Retromobile show is chassis number 0858 with a berlinetta body added for the occasion, a reconstruction, or what the hell? FC has some many experts. Cannot one of you give me a clear answer.
    Thank you,
    Tom Bucher
    Ps. Never let it be said that FC members don't care.
     
  11. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

    Nov 19, 2008
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    Not an expert but the P4 at Retromobile 2014 pictured in post 6 was 0858.
     
  12. TZ 750

    TZ 750 Formula Junior

    Jul 18, 2009
    902
    Beautiful car,
    beautiful display.

    WHO owns the car and
    presented the display ?
     
  13. nerofer

    nerofer F1 Veteran

    Mar 26, 2011
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    FRANCE
    I have reminded silent about the car, a lot of very qualified people having given their opinions. As for myself, I live at a ten minutes walk from "Retromobile" and didn't went there to see it.
    Can we call it a "de-conversion"? (= from the Canam to which it has been converted back then, back to "more or less" the P4 it once was?)

    Rgds

    Rgds
     
  14. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    "De-conversion" sounds good to me. :)
     
  15. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2008
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    What is, is.
    At this point it matters little what you call it.
    ;)

    Its interesting how other Marques view originality. If you want to be dogmatic there should be no authentic Bugatti type 51s at all. All were made by the factory with frames reclaimed from earlier Bugattis previous owners had traded in. So all 51s should be returned to their origins.

    One 51 had two incarnations. One as a racer and later as a road car. It has been restored as both simultaneously.

    So the type shouldn't exist at all but in one case a car exists twice.
    Bothers no one in the Bug fraternity.

    Just saying.
     
  16. nerofer

    nerofer F1 Veteran

    Mar 26, 2011
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    I mostly agree David; having some interests for vintage aeroplanes, "de-converting" a World War II fighter -that has been converted to a two seater trainer in his past - back to its original single-seater configuration (like it has been done in the eighties for some Spitfires, for instance) doesn't seem to be a capital sin.
    But enough has been said about this car already.

    Rgds
     
  17. Vincent Vangool

    Vincent Vangool Formula 3

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    #17 Vincent Vangool, Feb 12, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2014
    I think what bugs most people is that this car survived to present day, and was taken apart in present day.

    It's similar gripe to 250's becoming donor cars. Basically ruining surviving history.

    I don't think it's that there was a P4 reproduction body fastened on, as much as a survivor was dismantled to do it. Even though, it once was 0858 P4.

    Just as I think, that there would be alot less dis-taste for a well done GTO repro if a GTE wasn't sacrificed to make it.

    Actually, I think there would be alot of respect for a properly done GTO that was home brewed.
     
  18. bitzman

    bitzman Formula 3

    Feb 15, 2008
    2,134
    I cite the 250P that Coco Chinetti rebodied whenhe had a rich investor who wanted to be a car designer, bob Peak. The resulting gullwing car made the cover of Car & Driver but then in some year (when?) the body was taken off , the chasiss sent to Italy and a new body made. Ferrari grabbed the car alleging it was a replica, but lost the resulting lawsuit so I would say that the resulting race car is still the real car that ran LeMans and worth maybe $4 to 10 million (one hasn't sold in so long no one knows the price). So my argument is be the bones the same no matter what cosmetics you do above the chassis, it don't make no mind, it's still the real car. Like a movie star, if 'ts Marilyn Monroe, it was still Marilyn Monroe no matter what she was wearing at the time.
     
  19. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    #19 miurasv, Feb 16, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  20. TZ 750

    TZ 750 Formula Junior

    Jul 18, 2009
    902
    Who owns 0858 ?
     
  21. SteviePPS

    SteviePPS Karting

    May 11, 2013
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    Steve Warson
    That's the 3rd thread with the same question!

    If you have to ask.....
     
  22. TZ 750

    TZ 750 Formula Junior

    Jul 18, 2009
    902
    Actually, yes, I have to ask !

    This car is one of the most evocative
    and charismatic cars ever built by Ferrari,
    and one of the most coveted.

    Since there are so few of them, knowing
    the owners (and protectors, and conservators, etc)
    is important to the Ferrari World.

    With this beautiful car displayed at RETROMOBILE 2014,
    with "The Transporter," it is obvious that SOMEONE, has
    done a LOT of research, spent a lot of time and money
    to produce this display for us to see - mostly at no cost to us !

    Whoever it is, deserves a lot of credit, and yes, maybe adulation
    for having the dedication and (dare I say it...) the
    financial "throw weight" to bring all this together.

    YES, I want to know MORE about this person !

    1) Does he have other Ferrari cars ?

    2) Is he a member here ?

    3) Does he show his cars ?

    4) How can I thank him for what he has done for us ?

    Get a grip, my friends........

    Scott
     
  23. SteviePPS

    SteviePPS Karting

    May 11, 2013
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    Steve Warson
    Why don't you get a grip. Maybe privacy and anonymity are priceless? Or necessary?

    Why don't you leave somebody that choice? Do you want to create another disgusting 3rd person gossip thread like the one about Mr. Wang? Don't expect help from this side of the world.
     
  24. stevenwk

    stevenwk F1 Veteran

    Apr 12, 2007
    5,176
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    Steve
    It's kinda like asking who owns some of Rothko's paintings throughout the world…..which by the way are waaaaaaaaaaay more valuable than any Ferrari on the market, was on the market, or will be on the market.

    Period.

    Some of the world's super rich like anonymity. And I don't blame them.
     
  25. TZ 750

    TZ 750 Formula Junior

    Jul 18, 2009
    902
    Thank you for the pleasant reply.

    I can certainly understand a need for - and a desire for - some
    measure of privacy.

    I value that for myself.

    My assumption was the "owner" might like credit for the HUGE
    effort he has made to bring this car - and this display - to us.

    Showing the car and transporter in public indicated some
    willingness to be open to public acclaim and recognition.

    An easy solution to the "privacy" question is to
    invite "a friend" - like Rob Lay - to just post that:

    The owner wishes to remain anonymous.

    How hard is that ?
     

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