348 bad shifting fed up!!

Man, that's some serious rust!

Even so, there's no guarantee that the problem is clutch related (or related to clutch fluid that needs to be bled). Could be a shift cable adjustment issue. Could be a tranny fluid issue.

Can you shift the car into gear and through the gears with the engine off?

 

Can't help with your question but I can give some advice, DRIVE YOUR CAR MORE OFTEN, and the rust will dissappear.

 

Did you check to see if there was any air in the hydraulic line to clutch ie; did you bleed the line? Answers to the questions 1) the seals I've seen spin in their slots, by thwe pic. yours look OK but, since you have exposed them now I would change them. 2) The rust you have there is just surface rust its not uncommon you live in hi humidity area the shaht is not rusty just surface of the presure plate. 3) yes 4) since you have it apart I would change the bearing and the disc and the 3 seals. It's hard to tell what condition the clutch disc is in until you disassemble the unit. I'm still wondering tho about the "what if"air problem in the line, is there any?

 

DAve,

Totally wrong diagnosis. More info needed. Could have all kinds of probs from air in lines to clutch discs to tranny probs just like Ernie's grenaded box. Hey you want Ernie to rebuild it for you? He is almost done with his only took him 6 months? I think I'm going to get punched out for that crack... You need to do a step by step proper dix of the prob otherwise you are just guessing. Guessing = expensive = you'll FU something else. Not a put down but I think any mechanic would agree with me here.

 

Oh no that's too easy. I'm gonna choke you REAL slow and watch you turn blue before you pass out. LOL!

Let see.

Take it to the dealer and get hosed for over $17,000.

or

Take my sweet time, hang out with my fat lil buddy, and smokey the plugzit , and save thousand of dollars.

I'll take door #2 please.

 

You have gone as far as removing the housing so another 10 mins will give you the condition of the clutch. Use a good quality allen key to remove the ring gear and pressure plate. Mark the edge of each part with a dab of paint as you remove it so it can be assembled in the same position. Note which disk goes where and which way up.

The allen cap screws were pretty tight on mine but I found tapping the allen key with a block of wood did the trick without having to jam anything in anywhere. Remove the pressure plate screws evenly. Measure the plate/s with a vernier or micrometer and compare with the manual. Maybe then post some detail pics here for the skilled guys to comment on.

 

While you have it in the air, change the gear box oil and make sure you don't have any nice little metal surprises in it.

 

Look at that cracked seal....that could be the problem right there! Just for laughs and giggles test your mechanic. After he measures the clutch disc or discs let us know what the measurment is. I bet he has no clue but I'm such a cynic. Prove me wrong lets hear a number from your pro. His answer will tell me if you got a part replacer or a potential mechanic.

 

Hey Ernie,

Are you going to have your tranny fixed and your 348 running by the time that I get out to Cali for Pebble and fishing in mid-August?

I'd really like to see if what you've done gives you better shifts/feel, especially with what you've done with the differential.

Hey FBB, what was the story behind yanking out all of your door wiring?

 

That isn't a crack in the seal. That second/inner seal is supposed to look like that. Regards Vern

 

Not kidding. Thats the way they work. The outside seal is the main one I am not sure what the enginering idea is behind this but this is the way the inner seal looks. You weren't leaking hydraulic fluid were you? Regards, Vern

 

Yeah, that split is odd maybe that inner seal is some sort of balance ring, ie; keeping the bearing staight on the shaft? Since there obiviously isn't any sealing capability goin' on there. That outer seal appears to do the sealing.
Definintly change those seals since you have removed the bearing from the shaft, infact I would change the bearing since you are in there. How old/miles on the bearing? You might look into a Hill engineering bearing vs replacing with the factory piece.
The little bit of fluid is normal it comes from the fluid that is in the bearing housing. I usually open the bleed screw first to release the presure and drain the line then pull off the bearing, less messy. Regards, Vern

 

Well Vern,

You could be right on the inner seal. However, 1) the annular bearing house has 4 seals and there is no reason to use a split seal to help control walking of the housing on the shaft. 2) I am 95% sure my seals are full seals. I have done this many times and I have never really looked at this that closely but I'm pretty damn sure. Anyway....

Maybe I'll take Ernie's apart when he is not looking and see.

The Hill bearing may be better but I have been using stock oem ferrari bearings under race conditions with zero problems. So that's just another data point. Since Hill is making the bearings did they make a rebuild kit for the seals? What kind of seal is Hill using? Are they doing the spit ring inner seal? If they are did they just copy Ferrari or can someone tell me an engineering reason why?

I just got back from West Yellowstone and Bozeman. FlyFishing was awesome! It took 6 days but we finally found the big fish. You are lucky to live is such a great state.

 

Dave, another quick comment for you. The T.O. bearing in your pic. is the new style 360 bearing, an update for the 348. The reason I say that is parts guys will try to sell you a shaft along with the new bearing because of the car being a 348. They wouldn't know this unless you were to tell them that you already have the new shaft, that bearing(360) won't work with the original shaft on the 348. You also need to get seals(blue teflon) for the new bearing not the black seals that would be in the old 348 T.O. bearing. If you go with the Hill bearing you wouldn't need to worry about the seals. Regards, Vern

 

Hey FBB, Glad to here you had a good time up here.
The last two bearing replacements I've done had that goofy split seal so I don't know what to tell on that one. I was just grabin' for straws on my thoughts as to why its there because it didn't make any sense to me. That is why I asked the question about leaking, Dave didn't and I haven't seem them leak on the 2 I've done so appearently the outer seal is enough and the split one is there for sh*ts and grins I guess. On the bearing issue I too have always used the factory bearing but Hills looks quite a bit stronger and there have been some stories here on the OEM splitting thought It might be better to err on Hills side instead of OEM. On the rest of your questions about Hills bearing I'm not sure. I was only recommending because of their quality of other stuff they do, they look much stronger, and the reports of the fcar one splitting.

Oh, I almost forgot just how "big" was the big one? Regards, Vern

 

The times that I have experianced air in the line was when I was flushing the system and air got trapped in the line, just didn't bleed line long enough. The pedal effort has no pressure/feel to it. I have gone back and rebled the system a little more and was fine. Of course if there is air in the line(no hydrualic action) it won't disengage the disc and you couldn't change gears when the engine is running. I've been able to tell when there was air in the line because of the no presure on the pedal thing. I have not been driving and lost pedal presure. In your case I'm not sure I have enough info to tell what is/was going on. Has the trans been slowly hard to engage over time? Did you check the fluid level before you took stuff apart? Was there noise in the gearbox that slowly got worse? There are dozens of questions probably to ask but without being there is hard to know which ones to ask. Regards, Vern

 

I haven't had air in the line or any hydraulic/brake/clutch fluid problems.

On the other hand, I have had shifting problems when my car had the OEM Shell crappy transmission fluid from the prior owner.

I've had shifting problems when I've overfilled the tranny fluid. Wouldn't go easily into gear, especially 1st.

I've had problems when my tranny fluid was low. Wouldn't go easily into gear, especially 2nd.

On the other hand, she shifts Honda-smooth with Redline's no shock tranny fluid...as long as I'm not overfilled and not below 90% full.

So I think that it is fair to say that the 348 tranny is *sensitive* to the type and quantity of tranny fluid in your car.

This is not to say that other problems don't exist. Mechanical/wear issues have hit many 348 owners, as have the above-mentioned clutch fluid/air issues...I just haven't had them yet.

 

I doubt that too much DOT 4 hydraulic fluid would matter to the gearbox...but too much Red Line tranny fluid does impact shifts, at least on my 348.