348 broken timing belt-how much damage?

years ago, i bought a 308 gtb qv w/ only 4k miles. it was part of a collection and it just sat.

the owner before selling it to me had started it in order to drive it to the dealer for its' major prior to my purchase when it broke the belt. it broke at about 4.5 k rpm and did over $5k in damage w/ parts and labor. there would have been far less damage if at lower rpm's.

how many rpm's on the clock when you heard the crunch?

sorry to hear of your misfortune.

best, pcb

 

again, dependant on engine speed,

valves, retainers, springs, pistons, rods(not as likely if at lower r's) wrist pins...labor!!!

 

You'll be hard-pressed to find someone who snapped a timing belt on a 348. It simply is a rarity. You will hear stories (legends) of someone who knew someone who knew someone, etc., etc., but I will be surprised if anyone comes forward with a firsthand experience.

The reason for this is that the 348's are still too new. Many are running on the original belt still (gasp!). Now...to find a 308 with a snapped belt might be easier. Some smuck who let his car go 20 years without a change might have had it happen.

Good luck.

 

I recently saw a 348 with a busted timing belt. The owner replaced all the valves & had a major done at the same time.

 

I had a customer snap a timing belt on a 348. Your into valves, guides, and in his case 2 pistons and 2 liners. I also had to have all the rods checked and the bottom end line honed. The heads had to be repaired because of the damage done to them. All in all it cost 20k+ to repair. If you snap it..you will pay.

 

Bruce,

is this a hypothetical question just to see if it's worth doing a cambelt change every 3 years like Ferrari recommend, or a real case?

Under what conditions does the 348 cambelt snap? Bad fitment? Long storage? Lots of high rev usage?

Surely they don't snap that suddenly. If you do a visual once a year and the physical condition is ok (no fraying, no scoring, no exposed strands), shouldn't this mean the belt is ok for another year?

Certainly in Germany with dealers quoting €3000 (=$4000) for a cambelt change it's very tempting to skip a couple and save $8000!

 

It depends on the year and amount of usage of the car. Earlier cars had a different tensioner design which caused a greater load to be placed on them, and thus they are more prone to failure. They fixed this somewhere along the line.

The other side is usage. If you use it less frequently, the belts will be weaker, while if you use it more frequently, they will be stronger (generally).

 

My mechanic saw a 5yrs old 355 with a snapped belt & the agent charged US$36000 to fix it! Could have been halved from non agent. My lousy '03 "E" Merc broke the fan belt twice! Anyway I'm changing my 348 belt in the next few months just for a peaceful mind.

 

What year is 348? Did it have the oil drain updates done tothe heads? 89-92;needed done to insure proper oil drainage from the cam bearings,if not done,can cause cam seal leaks and bearings to seize.Could be one of the causes to break a timing belt.--Good Luck--

 

Tom's estimate is a reasonable ballpark figure.

#1 Belts do break, everybody in this business has seen them. I change my own every 5 years, I suggest you do the same. Broken belts are not a wives tale.

#2 Inspecting belts is a waste of time. I have held in my hand belts that looked perfect in every way except for the broken part. I find it surprising that owners will believe Ferrari about all sorts of stuff right up until it comes time to believe them about something that will cost money. Ferrari does not set that lifespan on belts to enrich their dealers. Ferrari does not care about their dealers. Ferrari is trying to keep their motors from blowing up so you will come back and buy another one. 5 years, mark it on your calender.

#3 The oil drain update on 348's had nothing, I repeat, nothing to do with bearing siezures or belt failures. It was an effort to correct a bad design so the motor would keep the oil on the inside.


If you decide to delay belt changes and other scheduled maintenance as an economic decision, thats ok. There are several cars, motorcycles and rifles on my list that I don't have yet and that sort of maintenance program just helps me achieve those goals that much faster.

 

9 posts later and we are still waiting for that "first hand" 348 owner with the busted belt to step forward.

 

Funny you say that when you have a tech with first hand experiance saying just that.

 

Hello:

A tad off topic but could you let me know a bit more detail about the oil-drain update, please? I'll be in the market for a 348 in early 2005 and I'm currently collating all the info I can on this model (forewarned is forearmed, and all that).

Many thanks for any info.

Yours,
Jim

 

Oops.

 

I have about the equivalent of the New York phone book of recalls and TSB's for 348's. The cam seal oil drain issue is very low on the list of priorities. Get a mechanic now and develop a relationship with him. Have him tell you about 348's and pay him well to inspect any candidates you come up with.

 

Any one who still believes that the belts don't break must have had a nice chat with Santa the other night.

 

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!! about time sombody spoke up for the guys in the trenches..PAY is the word...You pay your Lawyer for advice so you should your mechanic..His time is not free

 

Hey Brian! I don't think anyone has been talking to Santa. Sure - all belts break. But after making a few calls to dealers in Europe, the Ferrari-specified interval is treated like an exact science. If you've got 1000km over the interval they only just stop short of telling you to bring the car in on a trailer to avoid the belt snapping on the drive there!

Ferrari S.p.A. might not care about Dealers earning money, but the Dealers sure do! My locals want about $3000 for the cambelt service. Furthermore, I personally have NEVER, EVER had a car back from a dealer service without something that the dealer forgot, some nut not tightened, some filler cap missing etc. That applies to Mercedes, Audi and Ford. Bearing in mind that all my 'local' Ferrari Dealers are liaised with Opel or AlfaRomeo I dread to think of the quality of service.

If the 348 belt is gonna snap at 31000 miles, then how can the similar belt in an Audi V8 be suited for long, continuous, hot Autobahn driving, thousands of kilometres at a time with a change recommendation of 60.000 miles (and that is certainly going to have a 'safety' factor of 2 applied by Audi).

Surely Ferrari have determined as policy that their officially maintained cars may NEVER be allowed to throw a belt. Therefore they have taken the worst possible case and determined that the belt made it to 60.000 miles ok. Then this was halved to gather in any stray sheep, resulting in 30.000 miles. Commercial considerations aside, that's the way we engineers determine servicing intervals! The chances of the belt snapping at 30.000 miles must be infinitessimely small (unless that last one was fitted by an Opel mechanic working on the car!)

 

I say everyone run there cars until the belts snap and then we'll have some pretty good approximations...

Who said sacrifices aren't made in the pursuit of science?

 

Dear Drew, evidently you have not read the comments by huskerntexas. He still needs proof as do many, many people here and on all those previous threads of the same topic. Simple fact of the matter is there are non believers out there. I am gratified you are more enlightened than that. You are not however enlightened enough to know that as of the 355, 550, and 456 all timing belt recomendations are for 3 years. I am not a timing belt zealot. I think 3 years is a bit much, I do however make my customers aware of the number.

As for your previous experiences I am very sorry the automobile profession does not live up to the standards of perfection which I am sure your entire profession/industry does. In mine we are mortals and mistakes get made, if they rise to an unacceptable level I suggest you find a competent repair shop.

 

Brian,

I was aware of the three year thing also for 348's, but I thought the thread was fiery enough without more petroleum!

As for the workmanship, I'd prefer to do the stuff myself. Not because I'm perfect, but if something goes wrong then I KNOW it and don't cover it up! By the way, this isn't meant as real criticism on the motor mechanics - it's just life! And maybe a mechanic doesn't tell his foreman about an error because it's his job on the line.

If most motor mechanics were switched on, conscientious, careful, accurate, and meticulous, .... well they'd be doing something else other than get covered in someone else's gear oil, wouldn't they? The last Ferrari dealer who worked on my car fitted the tyres the wrong way round on two wheels.

Of course, doing Ferrari services oneself attacks that other Holy Grail - the dealer stamped-up service history!

Snapping belts is a probability game:
Changing them every 3 years doesn't mean that they will NEVER fail;
NEVER changing them doesn't mean that they will fail (up to a reasonable limit!).

There are used 348 engines out there for €5000 so it's an interesting game to play, isn't it?

Drew

 

Here we sit with 23 posts and exactly one (1) documented case. I'm not saying it doesn't ever happen. I said it's a rarity. I'm not saying abuse your car. I'm not saying "don't change your cam belt". It's amazing what people say I "said", when it's right there in black & white.

The gentleman wanted to know about "breaking belts" on a 348, and I simply said it's a rarity. Any Ferrari mechanic will tell you the same. What's wrong with the truth?

 

I sat and stared at one last week. Does that count????

 

Jerry, was it a FerrariChat post or a cambelt you were staring at? LOL!

Any chance of some info for the records? Mileage? Last change? Usage? Years since last change?

Drew