348 Cam Drive Chain Tensioner. | FerrariChat

348 Cam Drive Chain Tensioner.

Discussion in '348/355' started by steved033, Feb 5, 2019.

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  1. steved033

    steved033 F1 Veteran
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    I'm doing my major service. Q: Why don't I have a DIY major service thread? A: becasue there are already several, and that sort of documentation isn't needed. There will be a highlight reel, though. Here's the first one.

    Everyone knows that the cam drive in early 348's has bad bearings, and mine was no exception. At 21k miles, there was a distinct bearing noise, not a squeal, but a low growl. It sounded like the water pump. Turns out I still had the roller style bearing on my cam drive sprocket.

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    so per the TSB, I replaced it.

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    YES, per the TSB and on consult from Wade at *****************, the shield goes toward the sprocket. The shield is NOT a seal, it's a shield, and if you hold it to a light, you'll see it's quite porous. I suspect that in this orientation, it also helps keep oil IN the bearing. The marks on the case at the 4 and 7 positions around the bearing were there when I opened it up. They don't seem to be affecting anything.

    Per Ernie's fantastic engine teardown thread and in several text messages back and forth with him, we fit my new machined Stanyl chain guide by cutting off the overmolded original and noticed something that I think is really really important: There's a HOLE in the guide. I got the overmold off, and thought..."Now why would that be machined"

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    OH. Clever italians! there's oil pressure that hold the tensioner in place when the engine is running and the spring and lock thing keeps the tensioner in place when there's no pressure i.e. engine is off. There's two possibilites at this point. 1. it's just pressure relief, but if it was, why not release oil somewhere else? The hole ALIGNS with the chain, so 2. the orifice acts as an oil squirter to lubricate the chain as well.

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    I've noticed that guys who are buying blocks of Stanyl and are machining their own aren't putting this hole in.

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    It's a pretty easy detail to overlook, so I went searching to see if the replacement (non-overmolded) ones have the hole.

    and they do (per Ernie's thread):

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  2. steved033

    steved033 F1 Veteran
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    so it's time to cut a hole. I took my new part, and made sure it was located correctly on the metal guide, and then took a tiny file (being sure that it would make a tiny mark, but not enlarge the hole) made a mark, drilled a 1/16" pilot hole, then a 7/64" (2.77mm) hole, as that's the same size hole as the original.

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    The 8.84mm measurement is only a suggestion. The hole should be marked with everything in place and sliding properly.

    Now, did using a file to mark the hole enlarge the hole and mess up some metering? Probably not. If there was a pressed in brass jet, I'd have been more fastidious about not messing up the hole size, but any minor enlargement of the hole won't affect the choke point enough to affect the tension the oil pressure creates.

    So there you have it. The hole in the cam chain tensioner is important.

    sjd
     
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  3. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie
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    This type of chain tensioner, with identical body and piston but with a few size/shape variations of the pad, were used by Triumph (Stag & Dolomite), Rover, Peugeot and probably some other cars. I think it was originally "invented" by a British company called Renold. And yes, the hole through the pad is very important for the chain lubrication. Otherwise, the tension of the tensioner is, I think, more controlled by the spring and not so much by the oil pressure. The inlet and outlet (through the pad) holes are usually of the same diameter and some even have the inlet hole smaller than the outlet. This means that the oil pressure in the tensioner piston is rather small (but the oil will still flow to the chain) and it seems that the oil in the piston, as far as the tensioning operation is concerned, acts more as a damper to prevent the tensioner vibration as the chain links go over it. The picture below shows a Peugeot tensioner.

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  4. steved033

    steved033 F1 Veteran
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    Vibration Damping. That makes sense too.

    all in all, it's super clever.

    sjd
     
  5. itsablurr

    itsablurr Formula 3

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    What year is your car and mileage?

    Fwiw, my 92 (Dec 91 build) has NO hole in its original cam chain tensioner pad or assembly.
     
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  6. steved033

    steved033 F1 Veteran
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    Fascinating data point!

    '89. august '89 build. so early that i'm #64 stamped on the shock tower. (no chassis plate on shock tower)
     
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  7. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula 3

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    Interesting. Ive just measured my old one and its only a tiny hole, 1.2mm diameter.
     
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  8. steved033

    steved033 F1 Veteran
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    If it acts as a squirter, then the hole in the metal is what's important... I just copied the one I had. I suspect there will be a LOT of variation.

    sjd
     
  9. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula 3

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    Probably why my tensioner was so worn after such little mileage!
     
  10. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Excellent write up Steve!
     
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  11. 348Jeff

    348Jeff Formula 3

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    Excellent stuff and something I'd never of known about :)
     
  12. Jh348

    Jh348 Karting

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  13. steved033

    steved033 F1 Veteran
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    Thanks, man! I appreciate you being a text message away for bouncing these ideas off of.

    sjd
     
  14. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    That's what the 348 Brotherhood is all about. Helping each other so that owning a 348 is much easier.
     
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  15. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula 3

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    One thing I can't seem to understand on this type of tensioner, is that there is a gap between the shaft and the tensioner pad, therefore Im not sure how oil would pass through the hole under pressure. The Peugeot one in the photo has a solid base so can understand that.
     
  16. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie
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    Looking at the tensioner picture in the first post here, it appears that the original Ferrari rubber pad is fused to the metal base (like the Peugeot one) so the oil has no other escape but through the hole and to the chain. The Stanyl pad, although not fused to the base, seems to be sitting fairly tight against the middle raised portion of the metal base where the oil hole is. If a corresponding hole is drilled through the Stanyl, the oil will flow through it. The oil is at rather low pressure inside the tensioner cylinder and at no pressure as it exits the hole in the metal base towards the hole in the Stanyl pad. As long as the Stanyl pad is in contact with the metal base raised portion, the oil will go to the chain. It is not a high pressure oil squirt anyway but more like just continuous wetting/flooding of the chain, and the face of the pad, with oil (which very well serves the purpose).
     
  17. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula 3

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    That makes sense, thank you.
     
  18. itsablurr

    itsablurr Formula 3

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    Reversal of my post above. I came across my original pad last evening, and much to my surprise, noted that there is indeed a hole in the original pad, obscured on the face by the wear from the chain.

    '92 car, Dec 91 build. Orig pad w/37k mi at time of removal. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  19. Cauf61

    Cauf61 Formula Junior

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    As some foks asked me about this.
    Is there a way oil under pressure can get inside the hollow shaft ?? I don(t remember, to long ago.

    For me as the chain is inside the oil pan i think there is way enough oil for lubricating the chain. This little squirt hole won't make a lot of difference in my opinion.
    "Im not sure how oil would pass through the hole under pressure" very simple : not.

    There is so much motor oil flying around in that area that the little squirt means nothing and is not needed at all. My opinion.
     
  20. Cauf61

    Cauf61 Formula Junior

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    "the original Ferrari rubber pad" i am not so sure this is correct. Mine ( from 9/1992) is 100% original and Stanyl.
     
  21. Cauf61

    Cauf61 Formula Junior

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    Attached Files:

  22. steved033

    steved033 F1 Veteran
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    This gap?

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    It's not a GAP, it's taken up by the top of the shaft, which protrudes above the plate.

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    and the oil is pretty directional at that point....

    sjd
     
  23. Cauf61

    Cauf61 Formula Junior

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    Also correct.
     
  24. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula 3

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    Yes, I see that now. My pad was completely blocked. How to blow it out with compressed air!
     

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