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348 CHALLENGE #96182

Discussion in 'Challenge/GT Cars' started by borja_tf, Oct 2, 2019.

  1. borja_tf

    borja_tf Karting

    Mar 21, 2013
    85
    Spain
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  3. MBPaki

    MBPaki Formula Junior

    Nov 30, 2008
    593
    TURIN
    Full Name:
    Miki Bellagarda
    EX FERRARI DEUTSCHLAND, Helmut Mander, Challenge Europa 1993
     
  4. borja_tf

    borja_tf Karting

    Mar 21, 2013
    85
    Spain
    the information I have:
    • Originally delivered to Japan and never raced
    • One of only 32 348TB factory built challenge cars
     
  5. foresterguy

    foresterguy Rookie

    May 22, 2015
    29
    Full Name:
    Steve L.
    #4 foresterguy, Oct 2, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2019
    Noticed this car was brought to auction at Brooklands Motor Museum (U.K.) back in Jul 2019. I have no idea if it ever sold but in the auction ad it stated the following:
    • Originally delivered to Japan and never raced
    • One of only 32 348TB factory built challenge cars
    • Set the benchmark for track honed Ferraris
    It also stated: 'Many cars could be converted to Challenge specification with Ferrari charging $16,500 for the necessary kit; however, it is believed 45 cars were built at the factory as Challenge cars consisting of 13 TS and 32 TB cars.
    We are informed that this is an original factory built example on offer today and was supplied new to Japan and has not seen any race action but has been fitted with upgrades such as Ferrari F40 lights and F40 LM brakes together with more road going bucket race seats
    .'

    At least part of this is not correct. The only 'Factory Challenge cars' (32 TB and 13 TS models) were all built in 1994 and only for the U.S. market. The VIN indicates this is a 1993 overseas-spec model. All 1994 348 TBs (but not all 348TS) released for the U.S. market in 1994 were 'Factory Challenge cars'. This did not mean that it was released from Ferrari ready-to-race with roll bar, special seats, and all other race equipment installed. Based upon the success of the European 1993 Challenge series, and partially as a sales tactic, Ferrari decided to release all 1994 U.S.-spec TBs as Challenge versions with the roll bar mounts already pre-welded to the car. There remains speculation as to what else Ferrari endowed these cars with but none came ready-to-race from the factory. Owners still had to purchase the 'Challenge kit' and dealers still had to install the kit although it took less time for the dealers to install due to Ferrari completing some of the work. Not all U.S. 348 Challenge buyers opted to buy the kit and race their cars. All 348 cars built overseas, including 1994 models, required the full kit installation from the dealer or suitable vendor. None were partially prepped from the factory...except perhaps the one that was sold a few years ago that sat on the Maranello factory floor that was used by Ferrari as the Challenge prototype.
     
  6. Sempre_gilles

    Sempre_gilles Formula Junior

    Jul 11, 2003
    829
    Full Name:
    AdK
    Helmut Mander entered 96182 in the Ferrari Challenge Europa races during the Spa Ferrari days (May 1993). However my notes say that Mander was not an official entry in the Ferrari Challenge Europa 1993.
     
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  8. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    10,521
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    And how much does one think this car is now worth?
     
  9. Ferrari 308 Vetro

    Ferrari 308 Vetro F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 12, 2012
    4,426
    Austria
    Condition, Parts, Papers....????

     
  10. Jasonberkeley

    Jasonberkeley Formula 3
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    Apr 23, 2017
    1,140
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    Jason Berkeley
    More photos would help, along with documentation.

    Does it actually have all of the 348 Challenge parts? Seats are at a minimum upholstered in the wrong color based on the one photo. Nor does it appear to have the foglight protective lense covers. Roll cage? Undertrays and brake ducts? Electrical disconnects? Fire bottle, steering wheel, pedals, harnesses, etc...

    And did it actually ever race in a Challenge series event?
     
    Ira Schwartz likes this.
  11. Jasonberkeley

    Jasonberkeley Formula 3
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    Apr 23, 2017
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    Jason Berkeley
    #9 Jasonberkeley, Oct 3, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2019
    https://www.historics.co.uk/buying/auctions/2019-07-13/cars/ref-125-1993-ferrari-348-tb-challenge/

    Looks like its in nice condition overall, with the interior fairly intact, considering many of the Challenge cars interiors got cut-up quite a bit once they could be modified to race in other places after they were no longer eligiuble to race in the Challenge series.

    At quick glance looks like un-original dampers, incorrect brakes, steering wheel, shift knob, and electric disconnect in wrong location with dash modified. Odd that someone painted the cam covers yellow.

    All easily correctible items.

    Has the correct roll cage and foot pedals.

    Incorrect exhaust, seats and missing original challenge harnesses might be the hard parts to source. I would tend to doubt it has the undertrays.

    Wonder when the last major was performed?
     
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  13. Ira Schwartz

    Ira Schwartz Formula 3
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    May 20, 2003
    1,830
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    Ira Schwartz
    I don't object to the F-40 brakes (have them on my car), but as long as we're quibbling about missing/incorrect details, where's the front tow hook?
    May be a nice enough car, but as noted above it's not one of the 32 tb Factory Challenge cars, and according to the listing has no race history, so the "most recent public sale of a Challenge 348 achieved €241,500" stuff seems rather like puffing, to say the least.
     
  14. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    Jun 14, 2011
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    Tim Dee
  15. Jasonberkeley

    Jasonberkeley Formula 3
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    Apr 23, 2017
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    Jason Berkeley
    Look at the pics- I dont think those are F40 brakes.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  16. crinoid

    crinoid F1 Veteran
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    Apr 2, 2005
    7,967
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    LaCrinoid
    I think those are F42’s. :) They’re two BETTER than F40’s.
     
  17. Jasonberkeley

    Jasonberkeley Formula 3
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    In all seriousness, it looks like a good car in nice condition, and someone has made some practical brake and damper improvements to make the car better to drive, which is a good thing (that its being tracked too hopefully).

    I only highlighted these things in light of the OP asking about the value of the car. I think that comes down to two things: is the car one of the original "factory" challenge cars that had the roll cage mounts pre-installed? (Based on this list of known numbers, I think the answer is no. http://www.redfcar.com/pages/Challenge/348challengeregistry.htm). Did the car race? It seems like it didn't.

    I think the value of 348 Challenge cars falls into four primary categories:

    1. Highest value: Was one of the factory roll-cage mount installed cars, and actually raced back in the original series. Has all of the proper parts of the 348 Challenge kit installed

    2. Not one of the factory roll cage mount installed cars, but actually raced back in the original series, and has all of the proper parts of the 348 Challenge kit installed. Extent of race history also a factor in value.

    3. One of the factory roll cage mount installed cars, but the kit was never installed and the car never raced. Not really sure what the value of this is relative to a normal 348.

    4. Not one of the factory roll cage mount installed cars, was converted to Challenge spec with complete cage and full kit installed back in the day (would need documentation to support this) as if it had intended to race, but then never actually raced.

    Then there are derivatives of the above where cars that may have raced have had some or all of the equipment removed, or been race modified way beyond the original challenge kits, including removal of the original OMP bolt-in roll cage and safer SCCA compliant cage welded in, newer seats, oem dash removed or chopped into for new cage, etc... Im guessing value of this latter type of case would be somewhat diminished unless those modifications enabled it to run in a "higher level" series like the BPR Global GT Endurance series that enabled the car to establish a more substantial competition history of note.
     
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  18. borja_tf

    borja_tf Karting

    Mar 21, 2013
    85
    Spain
    The dampers were changed, the seats and the steering wheel (also deliver the originals with the sale of the car)
     
  19. Ira Schwartz

    Ira Schwartz Formula 3
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    You're probably right- I was just quoting from the ad, which cited F-40 LM brakes, although that doesn't appear to be the case.
    My current car has the Brembo F-40 kit, and it brakes better than my previous 348CH with the original binders (both with more modern, Porterfield race pads).
     
  20. borja_tf

    borja_tf Karting

    Mar 21, 2013
    85
    Spain
    good afternoon,

    Finally my friend has bought this unit, we would need help to know if as some forero says it really ran a challenge or not.

    What parts do this unit need to have the complete challenge kit?
     

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