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348 Challenge for sale

Discussion in 'Challenge/GT Cars' started by Jasonberkeley, Jun 24, 2018.

  1. Jasonberkeley

    Jasonberkeley Formula Junior
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  2. Jasonberkeley

    Jasonberkeley Formula Junior
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    Looks like the car Paul Frame raced out of Ferrari of Houston. Very reasonable price.
     
  3. MBPaki

    MBPaki Formula Junior

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    Yes is Paul Frame car 94 and 95
    Best, Miki-Paki.
     
  4. Jasonberkeley

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    Anyone have any picturesnof it from when it ran in 94 and 95?
     
  5. Ferrari 308 Vetro

    Ferrari 308 Vetro F1 Rookie
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    Description of the car is horrible...
     
  6. MBPaki

    MBPaki Formula Junior

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  7. Jasonberkeley

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  8. 19633500GT

    19633500GT F1 Rookie
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    Does the price offset come from it being a dealer prepped Challenge vs a Factory Challenge?
     
  9. Rob Lay

    Rob Lay Administrator
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    there may be some, but weren't most Factory "Challenge" cars left as street cars? all the ones I've seen that way have been. most actual cars that raced challenge were dealer kits.
     
  10. 19633500GT

    19633500GT F1 Rookie
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    I dunno, that's what I'm asking I guess.

    I did receive a response back from the seller stating it was through F of Houston originally.

    Which type is worth more in the end though? The vehicle check says "issue", I'm going to try to figure out what for (I'm assuming raced hard and some sort of mash up back in the day is likely?)
     
  11. Rob Lay

    Rob Lay Administrator
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    the factory ready challenge cars are valuable because they are rare and streetable, most were never raced. the 348 challenge cars were dirt cheap for many years, but seemed to have ridden the back of the 355 challenge cars going up. the interesting thing is the 10 years I raced the 355 Challenge in SCCA, NASA, and CCR you never saw any 348 challenge cars racing. they were typically too beat up and 355 Challenge cars could whoop them. my guess a very high percentage 90%+ of 348 challenge cars were put up wet and sat mostly 2000-present.
     
  12. Jasonberkeley

    Jasonberkeley Formula Junior
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    It seems as though there would be five categories of 348 Challenge cars in terms of value. Remembering that "factory prepped" includes little more than roll-cage mounting points installed at the factory.

    Most valuable would be a "factory prepped" car with an actual full 348 Challenge kit installed (original roll cage, seats, harnesses, fire bottle, brake duct undertrays, fog lens covers, tow hooks, electrical disconnect switches, solid suspension bushings on control arms, stiffer stab bar bushings, etc...) that has an actual race history.

    Second most valuable would be a non "factory prepped" car with full 348 Challenge kit installed with an actual race history.

    Third would be a "factory prepped" car with 348 Challenge kit installed in period by a dealer and no race history

    Fourth and fifth would be a toss-up for which is more / less valuable between:
    - non "factory prepped" car with 348 Challenge kit installed in period by a dealer and no race history
    - "factory prepped" car with no 348 Challenge kit (so just the roll cage mounts) and no race history.

    I think 348 Challenge cars have gone up in value because they are the first of the Challenge cars, there are not many that were built and raced (about 200 or so globally?), and they can be registered to drive on the street.

    If you look at the 1995 season race results, well driven 348 Challenge cars were fairly competative with the 355 Challenge cars. George Robinson in a 348 in 1995 being the fastest 348 driver, often finishing 2nd overall to a 355 being driven by Steve Earle or Peter Sachs, and at times George would turn a faster lap during the race than the winner.
     
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  13. Ira Schwartz

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    Having owned both a '93 dealer-converted car and a '94 "factory" example (both with period race history), I basically agree with Jason's analysis, FWIW.
    Clearly there are too many very subjective variables involved to say anything very meaningful, but my current car (#98791) is definitely quicker and more "of a piece" than the previous one (#95285).
    I suspect that the theoretical ability to title/tag a 348CH (in some states) contributes greatly to their value, much like a '95 355CH, but I'm getting too old and sore to enjoy that much any more despite having tagged both cars and driven to/from the track countless times!
     
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  14. Rob Lay

    Rob Lay Administrator
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    I mostly agree with Jason, although I think the really nice factory Challenge cars that were only on street bring a premium over beat up dealer Challenge cars even with racing history.
     
  15. 308 GTB

    308 GTB F1 Veteran
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    I know what you mean, Ira. It's a blast on the highway...

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    But the novelty soon wears off...

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    ...especially when stuck in traffic on a 95 degree day with no air conditioning. :)
     
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  16. Ira Schwartz

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    I hear you, Barry- definitely a HOT, NOISY experience, not to mention the harsh ride! I keep my car in Florida, and can drive to PBIR or Sebring with very little traffic or other hassles, although Homestead is a bit harder. If only my shoulders and knees weren't so decrepit!
     
  17. Jasonberkeley

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    I drive mine on the street, generally to and from track days at Lime Rock which is only a few miles from our house. Im actually surprised at how compliant the ride is given the solid bushings and stiffer springs. I expected it to be worse!
     
  18. foresterguy

    foresterguy Rookie

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    agree with both Jason and Rob....although IMO the most valuable would be an unraced factory challenge car with the complete challenge kit still boxed and shrink-wrapped....like the Bachman car.
     
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  19. 6Speed 430

    6Speed 430 Karting

    Jul 6, 2012
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    I apologize if I'm a bit off topic, but in regards to the 95 355 Challenge cars were they all dealer installed kits or was the factory involved in prepping these cars? If so how would you differentiate between a factory prepped 355 and a dealer prepped car?
     
  20. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    Yeah cool as that is I'm a history major, I like a car that has history with lots of "fight" stories to show & tell

    :)

    xo
     
  21. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob F1 World Champ
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    While the 348 and 355 is really the same chassis the 348C parts were never as developed. Springs, stiffener plates, more cage and 75+hp make a difference. That's why the 348 was slow and therefore was not seen in clubracing. It wasn't until I had my 348 in the 2750lb range that the performance was in 355/360C territory.
     
  22. NeuroBeaker

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  23. BartonWorkman

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    Hi guys, thanks for the contributions to the ex-Paul Frame 348CH which is currently
    residing with us at Curated in Miami and in the beginning stages of restoration.

    I'm doing a write up on the car and have found some really useful material but some
    of the actual stats and results from the 1995 season are awfully difficult to find.

    Unfortunately, former Ferrari PR man David Siebert has retired and sold his archives,
    very unfortunate.

    Might anyone have kept stats and results from this period of the FCS? Looking mainly
    for championship results in the years Mr. Frame was involved.

    Thanks in advance and glad everyone enjoys the video. There will be more as the
    restoration process continues over the next few months.

    BHW
     
  24. BartonWorkman

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    And, with regard to the still images from the period, they were provided by my
    great colleague Bruce Miller whom not only was contracted by Paul Frame but
    also served as the official photographer for FCS for years.

    Bruce has a great archive and enthusiastically responded to my inquiry about
    in-period images of the car. He's always my go-to guy with regard to FCS
    photos.

    Anyone looking for in-period images of their Challenge cars, I'm 100% certain
    Bruce would have them on file, hit me up and I will be glad to put you together
    with him. Super cool guy!

    BHW
     
  25. BartonWorkman

    BartonWorkman F1 Veteran
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    Driving one of the Challenge cars on the street, as Ira points out, is not everyone's
    cup of tea.

    They're very tightly sprung so every bump, every crevice you drive over bypasses
    the car and goes right to the driver's seat and the occupant gets a spine shattering
    shake-up.

    Noisy, indeed. Having driven a 355 Challenge from Miami to West Palm Beach for
    an event one time, you definitely need some hearing protection since you're not
    driving with a helmet and all the standard racing gear, the noise is deafening and
    after a while wears you out.

    The trip up to and back from West Palm was an experience. I felt physically
    beaten up from the bumps and had a headache from all the noise. What I thought
    was going to be a "neat" experience in fact turned into a really uncomfortable
    one.

    BHW
     

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