348 clutch--HELP

If you're going to change your clutch. My advice is to call Norwood's (a sponser of this board), you can easily remove the rear "pumpkin" and send it to them. They will disassemble, and repack the grease with the correct grease, replace all wear parts and send it back to you quite quickly. It isn't hard. I believe you'll find their prices to be favorable also. (972) 831-8111.
James Patterson is the owner.
I have no affiliation, blah, blah, blah.....................

 

I'm assuming that the clutch on the 348 is of a standard design in that the clutch disc is not made from kryptonite and the fluid used isn't liquified plutonium.

I've bled the clutch slave cyinder on my 1988 3.2 Mondial and I have a few thoughts on your situation:

*If you are losing brake fluid from your clutch slave cylinder, try bleeding first. It may not need replacing. It could be that the bleeder is loose or a hose fitting needs tightening. Only as a last resort would the slave cylinder need to be replace. Even then, much less expensive to rebuild it.

*If your slave cylinder is leaking, the transmission will be difficult to shift into and out of gear. If pumping the clutch pedal improves this situation, you've got air in the sytem caused by a leak.

*I have not heard of the pressure plate and flywheel needing replacing due to a leaky slave cylinder. Unless your mechanic has a tuition payment due for a kid in college.

Hope this helps.
Tom

 

Hmmmm. If you don't have difficulty shifting, It may be a brake line leaking. That and the fact that you just had the brakes serviced..... . Did you taste the fluid? Brake / clutch fluid is kinda sweet. If not, maybe it's engine or tranny oil.
Bleeding a clutch is the same as bleeding brakes with the only difference being that the bleed screw is on top of the clutch slave cylinder rather than on a brake caliper. I use a pressure bleeder but you can do the same job with someone in the car pumping the pedal.


Tom

 

Well...not true. The "oil leaking" may not be brake fluid from the annular slave throwout bearing...there is no slave cylinder. It could be gear oil that leaks past the triple seals on the input shaft. So lets sy you are not a mechanic and you want to do some home diagnosis. The worst thing that can happen from what I tell you next is that you wil get stranded but nothing gets wrecked that isn't already in need of repair. Most likely you will find the problem before that. 1) drive the car and monitor how much oil you leak by putting a piece of paper under the car after you run it. Look for increasing amounts of oil may mean increase leak in your throwout bearing slave taking place of a 4 or so weeks of weekend type driving but no change in charator of how th car starts. 2) if you notice an increase in hard hot starting (as in length of crank time) your leak may be gear oil past the triple seal into the clutch pack. And either way a proper clutch job includes changing that clutch pack grease, so the oil in there will not cause damage just make for temporary hard starts until you get it fixed. 3) If you have already noticed harder starting and now you can see a leak too then your issue is most likely the triple seal leak. If you do this you will save money by properly diagnosising the problem and fixing what needs to be fixed. However, if you just want the FNA fix for mega bucks you have the guy replace the clutch plate,pressure plate, surface the flywheel, replack grease, replace triple seals , replace throwout bearing with seals. The cost maybe 2500-3000.00 or 1500 in parts? Now that said if you diagnosis the problem as the triple seal then the cost is labor? and parts 50 bucks in seals and a 40 buck can of kulber grease. It pays to make a good diagnosis and it pays for mechanics to listen to the symptoms the owner tells you. PS. with ot doing an assay it is hard to tell gear oil from brake fluid after both have mixed with dirt and clutch dust and finally roll out of the bottom of the clutch bellhouse.

 

Sounds like there are some quirks to 348 maintenance. How could you distrust abyone name "fatbillybob" ?

Tom

 

Are you keeping a careful eye on your brake fluid level? If the clutch release bearing is leaking fluid, the level in the front tank will drop until air gets into the system, then you'll lose pedal pressure and you won't be able to shift.

 

Your slave cyl can leak a fair bit before causing clutch engagement problems, depending on how much "headroom" you have in the pedal movement (ie you can often afford to lose a little efficiency in the travel without noticing it).

Try ...
Clean around the area where the fluid is showing.
With the car stopped, pump the clutch pedal say 100 times (= a modest trip in the car).
Check for leaks. If none, clutch hydraulics sounds OK.
If clear so far, repeat with brakes. Any fluid?

If nothing either way it sounds like oil, OR there is a internal hydraulic leak that needs flywheel movement to throw it outside where it can be seen.

 

Here's the deal. Hose #35 in the diagram feeds hydraulic fluid from the brake fluid reservoir down to the clutch master cylinder. The outlet for hose #35 is quite high on the tank. The fluid level doesn't have to drop very far before the system starts sucking air. There's plenty of fluid to keep the brakes operational, because the fluid feed for the brakes is way down at the bottom of the tank.

If your car is indeed leaking brake fluid out of the perforated panel at the bottom of the clutch housing, then that lost fluid is being replaced from the brake fluid tank. But once the level gets down to that outlet, you'll find that air is a pretty poor substitute for brake fluid.
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I think you are going to have to remove the clutch pack from the rear of the car.

It will be the seals on the T/O bearing assembly.

While there replace the triple shaft seals as these are relatively cheap.

This can all be done by yourself (its not hard) and with the good help on this board, and you will not have to change the clutch plates if they are in good shape.

If it sleaking as bad as I think you are sayin gits best done sooner than later.

It takes about me about 1.5hrs to get the clutch pack off but others can probably do it much quicker.
Good lUck

John

 

I do not have a digital camera but can advise that I

1. removed exhaust shields
2. remove air intake
3. removed rear bumper
4. remove full exhaust (but not cats)

Now, refer to pictures by Shanb on clutch removal in archives its all there.

If you start we will talk you through the process

John

 

The part # for each clutch shaft O-ring is 137249. I suggest you order at least one or two extra as they can get damaged during installation. Your call, but I also recommend taking things apart BEFORE you go ordering parts - I find I always need one or two more parts than I thought. You may find you need other parts too. Here's a pic of the triple seals to help orient you. Good luck and let us know how it goes. Shanb
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Oops - I just re-read the thread and realized that you are probably asking about replacing clutch thrust bearing seals because of a suspected brake fluid leak. As jkuk said, the triple seals are a good idea as well since you're there. As was previously advised, you should remove the clutch pack and survey everything before ordering parts. Without knowing which thrust bearing version you have and which seals are leaking it's difficult to guess exactly what parts you need to order as there are a number of seals (flange, t/o bearing, etc). Would really recommend taking things apart, cleaning out the bellhousing and going from there. If you can post a picture of what you find that would be even more helpful. Good luck. Shanb

 

Hi, make sure you repack the grease on the flywheel properly (if it needs). My mechanic didn't do a good job & it causes hard start when hot & needs a repack again. The clutch plate is not expensive but flywheel will set you back thousands & hard to find. I've ordered a set of spare seals as well; supposed to soak them in hot water so they expand & soften, then push them into the rod.

I think it's best for you to open it up before ordering. You won't know what you'll need or not till you see it & it's a painful wait for parts to arrive.