News

348 Clutch part 2

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by ShanB, Jan 27, 2004.

  1. ShanB

    ShanB Formula Junior

    Jul 9, 2003
    547
    Tejas/Europe/Desert
    Full Name:
    shanb
    Greetings - I started a new thread to avoid winning the "world's longest-assed thread" award. Then again, that already belongs to that bikini thread a while back.....but I digress....

    I went to buy the shaft seals and the local dealer offered to undo the bell housing screw. I put the bell housing aside and put some penetrating oil on the flywheel cover screws and let the soak overnight:
     
  2. To remove this ad click here.

  3. ShanB

    ShanB Formula Junior

    Jul 9, 2003
    547
    Tejas/Europe/Desert
    Full Name:
    shanb
    Next, I removed the screws and removed the outer plate, then used a drift punch in the outer screw holes to gently knock the flywheel apart. It is a big mess:
     
  4. ShanB

    ShanB Formula Junior

    Jul 9, 2003
    547
    Tejas/Europe/Desert
    Full Name:
    shanb
    another shot
     
  5. ShanB

    ShanB Formula Junior

    Jul 9, 2003
    547
    Tejas/Europe/Desert
    Full Name:
    shanb
    Next I washed everything and threw away the solvent. I have never seen so many little parts for what is otherwise a very mechanically simple unit:
     
  6. ShanB

    ShanB Formula Junior

    Jul 9, 2003
    547
    Tejas/Europe/Desert
    Full Name:
    shanb
    Next, I sprayed the parts with a little WD-40 for final cleaning before reassembly. It cleaned up pretty well:
     
  7. To remove this ad click here.

  8. ShanB

    ShanB Formula Junior

    Jul 9, 2003
    547
    Tejas/Europe/Desert
    Full Name:
    shanb
    the intermediate plate:
     
  9. vincent355

    vincent355 F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 8, 2003
    5,701
    Wine Country
    Full Name:
    Vincent
    Well done!!!!

    Looks great! make sure and check the plastic bits for undue wear.

    Looks to me that changing those seals is a good idea.

    I'm surprised that you didn't have an issue with starting the car when hot with has little grease as was left inside the FW.

    BTW...I think that my FW problem was one 150 post thread by the time we were all done. This is a great site and makes these projects much easier to tackle, lots of knowledge here.

    Keep it up, very satisfying isn't it?

    Vincent.
     
  10. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2002
    5,959
    Milton, Wash.
    Full Name:
    Jeff B.
    Questions (just curious):

    1) Did your car have the hot start problem commonly caused by flywheel leakage?
    2) Did you ask the dealer if they carry any of the internal flywheel seals (o-rings)? I have heard that they are not available through Ferrari - true?
    3) Are you going to attempt installation of the triple seals yourself, or have the dealer do it with the special tool?

    The job is looking really good, I'm following with interest.
     
  11. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2002
    5,959
    Milton, Wash.
    Full Name:
    Jeff B.
    Vincent and I seem to be thinking alike - Hi, Vincent!!
     
  12. To remove this ad click here.

  13. vincent355

    vincent355 F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 8, 2003
    5,701
    Wine Country
    Full Name:
    Vincent
    Hey Jeff,

    Good to see you hanging around watching out for 348 owners!

    Thanks again for all the help with my car.

    How's she running?

    Vincent.
     
  14. ShanB

    ShanB Formula Junior

    Jul 9, 2003
    547
    Tejas/Europe/Desert
    Full Name:
    shanb
    back together - waiting for the grease to arrive:
     
  15. ShanB

    ShanB Formula Junior

    Jul 9, 2003
    547
    Tejas/Europe/Desert
    Full Name:
    shanb

    Vincent - Hello & Thanks!
    Jeff: Yes - the car was just starting to have a hot start problem and clunking on shutdown. I also noticed a leak and the grease inside the bell housing and figured it was time to investigate.

    I didn't ask about the intenal flywheel seals, I can ask when I go back Friday. I will attempt to do the triple seals myself, and will plan to use a piece of copper tubing about the same diameter as the shaft. It should work. Thanks guys,
    Shan
     
  16. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2002
    5,959
    Milton, Wash.
    Full Name:
    Jeff B.
    "How's she running?"

    Poor thing is sitting in the garage waiting for me to get a chance to drive her. Either it's the weather (see Northwest "Snow Day" thread), or I'm working the weekend, or some other silly thing. Spent this last weekend loading up one of my old Lancias (in boxes) into a container to be shipped to Germany, no time for Ferrari drives. Hopefully nice Springtime weather is just around the corner. Last time I drove her, "bellissimo"!!

    Shan, pardon the interruption....
     
  17. ShanB

    ShanB Formula Junior

    Jul 9, 2003
    547
    Tejas/Europe/Desert
    Full Name:
    shanb
    Jeff - no problem. I enjoy the banter. By the way, if you think of anything I've left out so far on this little job, please speak up.
     
  18. vincent355

    vincent355 F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 8, 2003
    5,701
    Wine Country
    Full Name:
    Vincent
    Shan,

    One trick I remember, when you are reassembling the FW, is to use pencils or skewers of some sort to keep the small spaces and o-rings aligned with the bolt holes.

    when's the special ferrari only Kluber grease come in?

    Vincent.
     
  19. ShanB

    ShanB Formula Junior

    Jul 9, 2003
    547
    Tejas/Europe/Desert
    Full Name:
    shanb
    Vincent:
    Thanks for the tip about aligning the o-rings. There are certainly a lot of little parts in that thing. I ordered the Kluber grease from Rutlands - should arrive by tomorrow or Friday, then I should be all set.

    I bought a Tubi and Hopefully it will also arrive in time for me to put it in this weekend.
     
  20. BrentC

    BrentC Formula Junior

    Aug 13, 2003
    278
    Sorry if this is a stupid question, but what's so special about the Kluber grease? What is it and where does it go? Just curious.
     
  21. ShanB

    ShanB Formula Junior

    Jul 9, 2003
    547
    Tejas/Europe/Desert
    Full Name:
    shanb
    Brent - there's no such thing as a stupid question.
    "Kluber" is the name of a company that produces a particular grease (remember grease = oil + thickening agent, often a reactive metal) that Ferrari has specified for use in the dual-mass flywheel. It is white and very heavy like the consistency of shortening (Crisco?) and is supposed to act as a dampener & lubricant for the internal parts of the flywheel. Ferrari currently specifies 280g of this stuff be used inside.

    The flywheel indexes onto the end of the output shaft of the engine in front of the clutch, slave cylinder and all attendant brake fluid and gear lube seals. If you get a fluid leak somewhere and it gets into the flywheel it thins the grease out and allows it to sling out of tiny openings in the flywheel over time. The flywheel gets unbalanced (fluid seeks lowest level) and produces vibration of the shaft which seems to produce a hot start problem and makes a general mess inside the clutch housing.

    The repair involves finding & replacing the bad seals to stop the fluid leak, and re-pack the flywheel if it's like mine. As you can see the grease was almost all gone and what remained was a dark, drippy sloppy mess that smelled....surprise....just like gear lubricant!

    Hope that made sense.
    Shan
     
  22. BrentC

    BrentC Formula Junior

    Aug 13, 2003
    278
    Shan,

    Thanks for the details; your explanation made perfect sense. I'm trying to soak up as much knowledge about these cars (especially 348's) as I can. Is Kluber grease hard to find or obscure? Which particular Kluber "part" (or part number, or name, or whatever) is it? Why does it have to be that and not another type of grease? Thanks again for the feedback.
     
  23. ShanB

    ShanB Formula Junior

    Jul 9, 2003
    547
    Tejas/Europe/Desert
    Full Name:
    shanb
    The grease is made by a European company and is ordered in the US market through distributors, or through parts places like T Rutlands, Sodacom's or the Ferrari Dealer so it's not that hard to find. I don't remember the part # off hand but it's like Kluber #1331 or something - don't quote me.

    I'm sure I could use another type of grease IF, and only if I knew what the exact formulation was for the one that's recommended. Different formulations serve different purposes depending on the base oil formula and the type and ratio of thickening agent. Then there's the stabilzers and additives, etc - it can get pretty complicated so (less so for motor oils, gear lubes, etc) when a specific application calls for a specific grease, unless you really know what's in it, I think it's usually best to stick with what the factory specifies.
     
  24. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2002
    5,959
    Milton, Wash.
    Full Name:
    Jeff B.
    The special flywheel lubricant is listed in the workshop manual as "Kluber GLK 1301 Grease". I spent quite a while searching for information on this, and came up totally empty! Obviously didn't look in the right places. There was no listing of GLK as a lubricant grade on any site I could find. I found a few listings for Kluber, but nothing for 1301 grease, except in Ferrari flywheels. I'm sure something else could be used, but it's hard to take a chance if you don't know the specifications.
     
  25. BrentC

    BrentC Formula Junior

    Aug 13, 2003
    278
    OK, it looks like it is part of Kluber's "Syntheso GLK 1" line of greases. The spec sheet is not available in English, so bear with me as I translate from French. It appears it is designed for (loosely translated) "multiple specialized uses where a non-reactive nature is necessary between most plastics and/or elastomers, including EPDM". It goes on to say it is also useful for lubricating surfaces where rubber/metal, plastic/metal or plastic/plastic contact is made, and that "consequently, it finds preferential usage in the automobile industry". It also is compatible with brake fluid, according to the spec sheet. It is not recommended, however, for lubricating aluminum parts or where aluminum is subjected to strong forces.

    My technical French is obviously pretty weak, so I may be mis-interpreting some of this, but on the surface it sounds like it may be the right stuff if it must be compatible with seals in the dual mass flywheel.

    FWIW
     
  26. ShanB

    ShanB Formula Junior

    Jul 9, 2003
    547
    Tejas/Europe/Desert
    Full Name:
    shanb
    Brent - good eye. It could be in this line of greases (polyethelene glycol oil base + Lithium soap). I have the Spanish spec sheet for the GLK 1. It looks close except that the weights the grease is packaged in (Boat of 1 kg Can of 25 kg Can of 180 kg) don't match with the way it's sold for the Ferrari application (500g).

    It could possibly be the same stuff, just repackaged and renumbered so Ferrari can charge more? I don't know.

    Shan
     
  27. 348paul

    348paul Formula 3

    Dec 27, 2002
    1,098
    Kent - UK
    Full Name:
    Paul Hill
    #24 348paul, Jan 29, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Brent,

    Here is the PDF in English for the GLK0 & GLK1 grease.

    We use the ISOFLEX grease in a lot of our machines - although it is expensive it is very good.


    Paul
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  28. BrentC

    BrentC Formula Junior

    Aug 13, 2003
    278
    Shan,

    I've got to believe that's what Ferrari does - you get to charge more if it has the little horsey on it.

    Paul,

    In your opinion is this what is used in that 348 application? Or is it just a lubricant you are using in your factory? I need to contact you off-line about the clutch tools you posted in the original thread on this topic. Talk to you soon.
     

Share This Page