348 Clutch Won't Engage | FerrariChat

348 Clutch Won't Engage

Discussion in '348/355' started by 348USA, Apr 28, 2016.

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  1. 348USA

    348USA Rookie

    Jun 12, 2013
    25
    Didn't realize my car was in first gear when I engaged the starter tonight without the clutch being pushed in. Starter motor lurched the car forward a few inches as I quickly turned the key off when I realized my mistake. When I went to push the clutch in before trying to restart the car in neutral I noticed the clutch pedal had no resistance when pushing it in just the light feel of the pedal's return spring. The car started OK in neutral but I didn't dare try shifting gears because I was sure the clutch wasn't working. With the engine off I can shift the transmission into all 5 gears and with the clutch fully depressed give the car a push but it won't move because the gears are still fully engaged. Putting the transmission in neutral allows me to roll the car or start the engine. I checked the brake / clutch reservoir and topped it off but still no clutch. I haven't seen any fluid leaks anywhere. This is a 16K mile car what just happened?
     
  2. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Mar 31, 2006
    32,793
    East Central, FL
    Full Name:
    Wade O.
    Clutch throw-out blow out? Are you sure that the pumpkin's bottom is dry?
     
  3. John_K_348

    John_K_348 F1 Rookie

    Sep 20, 2013
    2,753
    Boston, MA
    Full Name:
    John E. Kenney
    Oh no! At least you caught it before you blew out the gear box too! Thing is, the TO bearing might have needed attention anyway. Good luck and go with Hill for top notch WDC winning tech. (You hear me SF and our crap turbo explosions?!) Hang in there ;)
     
  4. plugzit

    plugzit F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 1, 2004
    7,776
    Redondo Beach, CA
    Full Name:
    Bruce Bogart
    Highly unlikely any damage was done by turning starter while in gear. Problem is likely independent of that. Symptom, assuming no fluid on the floor, is indicative of a failed clutch master cylinder. Stab the clutch pedal quickly a few times in rapid succession and see if you get any resistance. That's the test for failed clutch master cylinder. If it's the slave (throwout bearing carrier), fluid will leak on the floor from the clutch housing in the rear in significant amount.
    Has the car been sitting for a while (day, month, year, decade?)
     
  5. 348USA

    348USA Rookie

    Jun 12, 2013
    25
    I did try pumping the clutch pedal after toping off the fluid reservoir and there was absolutely no change and yes the car has been sitting in neutral now without being moved for 15 months straight I have been starting it every month but it has not been moved at all because it has been pinned in place by another car in the garage so no clutch movement at all during this time just sitting in neutral. I have not had a chance to do a really good check of the under side or pumpkin for signs of leakage but a quick look last night didn't show any obvious signs of fluid on the garage floor. If the clutch and pressure plate were frozen together wouldn't there still be heavy clutch pedal movement? The pedal pressure is very light as in just pedal return spring light.
     
  6. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    13,556
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    Very light pedal pressure and stabbing the pedal resulting in no pressure build up... means your clutch master cylinder is toast especially if there is no fluid leak at the pumpkin.
     
  7. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 22, 2011
    3,225
    Serbia - Niš
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    Miroljub Stojanovic
    I would check in this order:

    1. Check the area behind the clutch pedal and below the clutch master pushrod - look for any signs of fluid leak; also see if there is any fluid under the carpet in this area.

    2. If no leaks at (below) the clutch master pushrod, try bleeding the clutch circuit.

    3. Go to the clutch slave.
     
  8. 348USA

    348USA Rookie

    Jun 12, 2013
    25
    Thank you all for your input I have checked for leaks at and around the clutch master cylinder and the transmission end of the car and with the exception of a little fluid on the pumpkin screen all seems to be pretty dry so tomorrow morning when I have an extra body I will try bleeding the clutch in hopes that a small amount of air found its way into the line and that's all that is wrong. I'll report back with my results Thanks again.
     
  9. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie
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    Dec 22, 2011
    3,225
    Serbia - Niš
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    Miroljub Stojanovic
    #9 m.stojanovic, Apr 29, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Bleeding the clutch or brakes is much easier with a pressure bleeder and it is a one man job. A fluid catch bottle at the nipples makes the job very clean. What I also did was put teflon tape on the threads of each bleed nipple to prevent fluid leak pass the threads when the nipple is loosened. You can buy the pressure bleeder or DIY one like this:
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  10. 348USA

    348USA Rookie

    Jun 12, 2013
    25
    I'll have to look into getting one of these so I am not held hostage by the second man requirement....thanks for the tip.
     
  11. 348USA

    348USA Rookie

    Jun 12, 2013
    25
    #11 348USA, May 1, 2016
    Last edited: May 1, 2016
    Well after a bit of fumbling with the clutch bleeding process I finally got a firm pedal and no leaks at the master or slave cylinder so I thought I was home free but the clutch is still not disengaging even though I have the usual heavy clutch pedal feel back again. I can hear some movement at the back of the engine when the clutch is being pushed in by my helper. Is possible that after 15 months of dry storage that the pressure plate and clutch are stuck together? I have several standard transmission cars in the same garage stored in the same manner for similar periods of time and longer but have never had this happen to one of them. Any ideas on what to try next?
     
  12. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    Jun 11, 2004
    11,223
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    John Kreskovsky
    #12 johnk..., May 1, 2016
    Last edited: May 1, 2016
    How long had the car sat? It's possible that the clutch disk has adhered to the fly wheel or pressure plate. You may be able to free it by placing the car in gear, depressing the clutch and having someone rock the car.

    [edit] I see you added it sat for 15 months. So, yes. :)
     
  13. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    Nov 23, 2012
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    Orchard Park, NY
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    Dave Lelonek
    I agree. I had a vacuum bleeder and you get bubbles around the threads but this does not happen with a pressure bleeder and therefore no need to tape threads if doing it that way.
     
  14. 348Jeff

    348Jeff Formula 3

    Oct 25, 2011
    1,531
    UK
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    Jeff
    #14 348Jeff, May 1, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I bought one of these to bleed the brakes and clutch and ot works perfectly. It also allows you to bleed the clutch by yourself. Its basicly a silicone hose with a slit in which turns it into a one way valve. Very simple idea but works perfectly :)
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  15. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie
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    Dec 22, 2011
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    Miroljub Stojanovic
    Perhaps not completely bled yet, try bleeding more. I would completely flush the old fluid from both clutch and brakes. With a pressure bleeder, this goes easily except that you have to top-up the reservoir every now and then. Another advantage is that you can hear the sound of the bubbles / air pockets being pushed out.

    When fully bled, the feel on the clutch pedal should be: gradually getting heavier from start - goes over a heavy peak - gets somewhat lighter when over the peak and towards the bottom of the travel.
     
  16. ///Mike

    ///Mike F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2003
    6,097
    Bugtussle
    I had completely forgotten about this because it's been years since I've seen it, but that sounds like a distinct possibility based on the description. With old English cars where the clutch is a PITA to access we used to break them free by dragging them around the lot in second gear while rapidly pumping the clutch pedal. No way in the world would I do that with a 348, so thank goodness the clutch is easy to access.
     
  17. pnicholasen

    pnicholasen Formula 3

    Jan 14, 2011
    1,364
    South of Philly
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    Paul Nicholasen
    You can try jacking up the rear of the car and putting it on good jack stands, put it in 2nd gear, start the csr, then hit the brakes and if you're lucky it will pop free. You can do the same thing without jacking it up if you have the car pointed towards a strip of clear pavement with no obstacles to hit.
     
  18. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jun 11, 2004
    11,223
    CT
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    John Kreskovsky
    If rocking it doesn't work, jack it up, removed the inspection plate, have a buddy depress the clutch and using a kitchen knife, slide the knife up between the clutch and pressure place or flywheel. Assuming the clutch disk is stuck to one or the other, or both, it should pop loose fairly easily.

    You should probably do this anyway, just to be sure the clutch is working, as that has not yet been established.
     
  19. 348USA

    348USA Rookie

    Jun 12, 2013
    25
    Thanks for all the great input I keep having a problem with my password being denied and having to constantly change it on this site so my responses are running slow as I try to juggle my work and home schedule. The access port thru the screen is a great tip and I jacked up the car and removed it last night. I can see the fly wheel and clutch thru the opening with lots of surface rust on the outer edges of the clutch assembly I did not have a helper to exercise the clutch while I was underneath the car so that will have to wait until tonight but in the mean time I am also busy cleaning up the battery box and installing a new DieHard as part of my Spring checklist. The rear mounted metal battery tray had surprisingly little rust for a 25 year old car so I was relived to see that.as clean as it is.
     
  20. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2002
    5,966
    Milton, Wash.
    Full Name:
    Jeff B.
    It's possible that a piece of the clutch friction material has broken off the disc and jammed itself between the disc and the flywheel. It happened on my old 348. Easy job to replace if you have a single disc, tougher if it's the dual disc.
     
  21. 348USA

    348USA Rookie

    Jun 12, 2013
    25
    I finally got back to the Ferrari this morning and with the car on jack stands I was able to get underneath and confirm that the clutch assembly was moving when the pedal was engaged so I knew all the air was out of the lines and the whole assembly was moving freely so now I needed to deal with the apparent frozen clutch / pressure plate . With the wheels in the air I manually twisted them forward and backward rapidly for the first 3 or 4 tries there was very little movement just a small amount of play in the drive live but on the fifth try the clutch broke free letting the wheels spin freely I then started the car and proceeded to move it a small distance in first and reverse to make sure there were no strange noises or behavior. All systems appear normal as though nothing had ever happened so now I just need to keep an eye on the brake fluid because I must have a very small leak in the system that allowed air to get in during the 15 months the car has been in storage. Thanks for the help it sure makes owning this car a lot less intimidating and it beats calling the garage every time one of these problems crops up $$$$$$.
     
    Roy balboul likes this.
  22. ///Mike

    ///Mike F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2003
    6,097
    Bugtussle
    Great news. Glad it was something simple. That was a nice call by JohnK.
     

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