So would you say that the 348 is still a bargain car that has gone unnoticed at the moment?, because I simply can't see it (especially as UK RHD 348's are worth more at the moment than the equivalent 360). In all honesty, I don't see the UK RHD 348 as being a £50K~£70K car from now on and forever, sooner or later I suspect that they are going to fall back to £30K~£40K (with £50K possible for the exceptional cars), but I could be wrong.
In my opinion the 348 is going through the similar thing the 246 Dino went through. It was an unloved car. "It's not a real Ferrari", "a real Ferrari has 12 cylinders in the front of the car". Decades later people realized how special and unique the 246 is. Then POP! The prices started claiming and climbing and climbing. You couldn't give away a Dino for $15,000 back in the day, now just TRY finding one for less than $150,000 in rough condition. The 348 got it's "bad" reputation because of two things. 1) Ferrari got complacent, and a bit arrogant. If we build it they will buy it just because it's a Ferrari. Ferrari is the best sports car money can buy. Or was it? Then along came a company named Honda who not only wanted to beat Ferrari on the track (and where actually doing so) they wanted to cement that on the street also. And thus was born the NSX. The wake up slap in the face Ferrari needed. 2) LDM. After Enzo's death he was the new cock in the hen house. Of corse he was gonna piss all over the 348. Because the worse you make the previous cars come across the better the cars that come out under your flag will look. He claimed that the 348 was "the worst Ferrari ever built". Was it really??? If the 348 was "sooooooo bad" why does the "better" 355 share the exact same unibody? Speaking of , the 348 was the FIRST time Ferrari used a unibody design in any of their road cars, which they are STILL doing to this day. The 355 is almost what Ferrari should have done with the 348 in the first place. The 348 has SO MUCH untapped potential it is ridiculous. I know a couple of modified 348s that are making over 400hp+ naturally aspirated, BOTH on stock blocks. One of them has yet to get dyno proof, and the other has proven it on the dyno. I've been for a ride in one, and seen the sheet of the other. Before you scoff at the power claims keep this in mind, the Micholotto tuned 348s where making between 450-460hp at the crank (iirc). I have said this before and I'll say it again. The 348 is an unpolished diamond, a great little Ferrari, that in the right hands can be made to shine brightly. It's is just unfortunate that Ferrari decided to release the 348 before it had been polished properly into the gem that it is. Better get yours before they turn into six figure Ferrari's like the Dino did.
The 348 also got it's "bad" reputation because it's chassis was too nervous when at the limit and the suspension was a tad too firm on anything but the smoothest of tarmac. This was fine for the experienced Ferrari test drivers who were used to reading every little detail of what the chassis was doing, but for the average driver/owner the handling could catch them out too easily and the go-cart stiff suspension could be a bit too uncomfortable. Added to that, the Testarossa-esque styling was very much an 80's design that soon fell out of favour with people in the same way that "power dressing" did. People just didn't want the slats and grills, or the rectangular rear tail lights. They hankered for the more traditional curves and round rear tail lights, hence how the 355 gets the acclaim for it's good looks whilst the 348 gets overlooked, even though the basic shape of both cars are exactly the same. Ferrari attempted (and succeeded to a degree) to tame the 348's handling at the limit and make the car a bit easier to live with for "Joe Public", but it still wasn't the easiest of supercars to live with when "pushing on", especially compared to it's rivals. The ultimate evolution of the 348 sorted all of these problems though and gave the public exactly what they wanted: Class leading performance and handling with all the traditional features that had been missing since the demise of the 328, and they decided to call this ultimate evolution the 355. Today though, the 348 is being appreciated for being a great car in it's own right. The handling issues are not such a big deal any more because either the cars have been modified/upgraded over time, or the owners don't tend to push them as hard any more, especially as most 348's are now in the hands of enthusiasts who are not mega rich and so don't take as many risks with the car as a lot of owners did when the cars were brand new (basically, a lot of 348's, whilst still driven with a bit of vigour, are not pushed to the absolute limit because owners are aware of the cars limitations and the fact that they are now 25 years old and repairs can be expensive [naturally there are exceptions to the rule, but I'd suggest that most 348's are now "semi-retired" from racing around everywhere flat-out] ). For quite sometime, a big appeal of the 348 was the fact that it was the cheapest way into Ferrari 2-seater V8 ownership, but today (in the UK at least), the far more capable 360 can be bought for less money than a 348, so that cannot be why they're sought after now. I suspect you're correct in that the styling of the 348 is now more appreciated as a classic of it's time and it's performance issues are not so important any more. However, I cannot see it taking after the 246 value-wise any time soon as the styling is still not universally popular and a lot of Ferrari buyers are still put off by that old reputation. If you want the next Ferrari to follow in the 246's footsteps then you need a 3*8 GTB/GTS or 355 IMO, not a 348 (that's not to say the 348 won't go up in value even more sometime in the future - It just won't go up to the same degree as the 3*8 GTB/GTS or 355)
I am a big 348 booster, but I'm not in Ernie's camp. It will increase substantially and soon, but not equivalent with the Dino. I think Ernie said that for dramatic effect. The 348 could have been had for very little money compared with other Ferraris. The near future will see double values from where they were a few years back. Remember when you could get a 348 for in the 20's? Forgetaboutit. We will all be preaching what we shoulda done 3 years ago very shortly. I am proud to say that I believe we 348/355 Brothers and Stooges are much of the reason behind this. We have demonstrated how capable these cars are and how simpler (for a Ferrari) they are to maintain.
I did suspect that Ernie had his tongue in his cheek with his Dino comparison (or some serious wishful thinking! ). As I say, in the UK, 5 years ago a decent RHD 348 TB would set you back @ £18K (@$28K), and a TS would be @ £20K (@$31K). Today you're looking at @ £59K ($91K)~£70K ($108K) for a RHD car, so over here the values have already gone up by @ 3 times (however, as I have previously posted, I still expect these values to drop back a bit in maybe a years time or possibly sooner). Sooner or later though, the value of 348's will go up even further, that's just par for the course with Ferraris, it's just a matter of waiting long enough, and RHD cars should do really well as they are comparatively rare in the "modern Ferrari era"
The hadling issue of the 348 is because of crap suspension setup from the factory. The chassis is just fine. When I first bought my 348 I spun it a few times rounding corners a bit too fast. Fatbillybob helped me lower it and set the chassis rake. That REALLY help the handling. After I took out all the negative camber I could out of the rear wheels, then had the fronts aligned to normal specs (i.e. just drive straight, very little to no neg/cam) the twitchiness that it exhibited in the lower triple digits went away. Both Sy and Andy ditched the stock shocks for modern adjustable shocks, that changed the handling again. Andy, and when fatbillybob had a 348, both got their cars corner weighed = again the hadling improved. The bad hadling is a result of bad setup. Once the suspension tuned PROPERLY the 348 handles amazingly well. Like I said Ferrari turned the 348 loose unpolished. It is a well engineered car that got sold to the public set up sloppy. As for the 348 appreciating, it will not surprise me one bit when they are selling at and above the original sticker price. When will that be? I have no idea, but it's my opinion that it will happen. My reference to the Dino was because it too was once an unloved Ferrari, an ugly duckling if you will, and no one would have guessed it would have appreciated to the level it has. Maybe the 348 never appreciates that much, but then again......I could happen, as it has been going up in price. Our little ugly ducklings are starting to turn into swans.
I should have stated that the chassis is nervous at the limit in standard factory trim with the standard suspension set up. What I would say also though is that whilst the "stooges" have done an incredible job perfecting the 348, it's only going to change the perception of the car of those who already know the car and who are on Ferrarichat. The vast majority of car enthusiasts will only remember the cars original reputation as printed in hundreds of magazines.
I'm a BIG TIME BELIEVER OF THE 348 Talking to Ernie Bruce Vince Eric and the others made me get one and it's truely one of the best drivers to "tune" I may get another
Absolutely agree (all except the bit about removing the negative camber from the rear)! I probably did about 10k street and (mainly) track miles in a buddy's 348 over several years more than a decade ago. I'm not talking about just doing laps, I'm talking about bumping up against the limits of handling, while still having respect for the car. His car was a '91, I believe, so before the change in rear geometry. However, it had been set up by some of the best Challenge wrenches in the country. I can say without a doubt that there is nothing at all whatsoever diabolical about the way a properly set up 348 handles, even at the limit. Sure, it's a mid engine car with most of its weight centered right behind the driver, so its low polar moment means things happen quickly. But the car does exactly what you tell it to and its reactions are linear and predictable. The claims about tricky handling and instability come from poorly set up cars. I once drove one where the back end wanted to pass the front end at speeds over 100 mph, and the car was almost impossible to drive in corners. But that is the case with *any* mid-engine car-- they are very sensitive to setup. BTW, the guy who owned the 348 eventually bought a 360 when they came out. so I got to spend a lot of time in it as well. The 348 is easier to drive at the limit than the 360. The super-sensitive DBW throttle and quick, highly-boosted steering in the 360 mean that your inputs have to be very, very metered when trying to balance the car at the absolute limit of adhesion. Sure, the 360 is quicker, and it's much more friendly around town. But a well set up 348 is easier to drive at 10/10, which says a ton about the validity of the claims that the 348 is somehow twitchy. As to values, the reason I brought this ten year old thread up is because I think that the 348 shares much in common with the 365 GTC/4, which was mentioned in an earlier post. The styling of both cars was controversial for many years, but over time has become appreciated by more and more people. The 365 was compared negatively to its predecessor, whereas the 348 has been compared negatively to its successor. For years 365 prices languished, even as other V12 cars appreciated substantially. But look at their values now! Sure, there are differences that will presumably impact values-- the GTC/4 is a much rarer car, and it's a V12. But the point is that 365 prices are up 10x from their long-time lows, so even if the 348 only increases 5x from its long-time lows that still makes it a $150k car at some point in the future. Another example that's closer to home (since it's a V8 car), is the 308 GT4, which is up ~3x from its long-time lows and presumably headed higher. Now I've long been a fan of both the GTC/4 and the GT4, but you gotta admit that they were at least as unloved as the 348 at one point in their history. And I'm not sure how unloved the 348 really is anyway. For one thing, non-Ferrari people don't have a clue about the 348's bad press. For another thing, if you look back at the very first pages of this very forum section, you will find many, many positive comments from former owners and from 355 owners. In this area I think we're our own worst enemies, repeating false claims ad naseum until they take on a life of their own. How many times do you hear knowledgable owners or former owners bagging on 348s? How many experienced racers with well set-up 348s ever complain about the handling? So why do we give credence to erroneous claims about the 348 and continue to repeat them? Call them for what they are: pure BS. My own take is that the 348 is the most undervalued Ferrari around right now, with the possible exception of the Mondials (although those are much more of a niche market car than the 348). The Ferrari market as a whole goes up over time, just as the stock and real estate markets do. All suffer corrections occasionally, some painful, but over the long haul they trend upward. I think the Ferrari market is due a correction, but timing the market is a fool's errand. And even if it is, the cars that have appreciated the least in the preceding boom are the ones that depreciate the least in a downturn. Owning a 348 is akin to owning the least expensive house in a very nice neighborhood. Our upside potential in a positive market is greater than average, our downside potential in a negative market is less than average. On top of that, we have the enjoyment of knowing a secret before it becomes common knowledge: the 348 is a wonderful car on its own merits, and it compares quite well with the other production cars from Maranello as well. Forza 348, the last analog V8 Ferrari!
The problem is, non-Ferrari people who don't have a clue about the 348's bad press do an online search about the car, look at the reviews of the car from "back in the day" (many written by well known and trusted motoring journalists), read the statements made by LDM slating it and make their minds up based on that information alone. And as they are non-Ferrari people, many are not aware of FChat's existence, and of those who do bother to look the car up on FChat, many will put the positive statements about it down to being from overly defensive owners trying to justify the fact that they bought one of the cheapest Ferraris that is looked down upon by many a Ferrari owner and many car enthusiasts (before you get too defensive about this statement, I appreciate that the vast majority of Ferrari enthusiasts accept the 348 with no problem whatsoever, but it cannot be denied that there are some snobby Ferrari owners who still to this day look down their noses at the 348, just as they do the 308 GT4 and the Mondial). I agree with pretty much all of that but would say: Don't fall into the trap of believing that the US market is representative of the World market! Right now in the UK, a RHD 360 can be bought for less than a RHD 348, as can the Mondial and the 456. The RHD 348 market over hear has already taken off (helped by the fact that RHD 348's are one of the rarest Ferrari's of the "modern" era), and are now being sought after. LHD cars are still comparatively cheap over here because no one really wants them (as I have already posted, the dealers saw the 348 market start to take off and flooded the market with LHD's from the Continent hoping to make a fast buck, but they're just not selling). I own a 348, I love driving it and do not believe it deserves it's "bad car" reputation at all, the problem is though, reputations are incredibly hard to shake off! (Hence why Lancia had to pull out of the UK car market - They just couldn't shake off their poor reputation).
Had a buddy sell his 348 for $27,000 and buy a 360. I tried to buy the car, but he wouldn't sell do to low compression numbers on the engine. I thought it would be a fun car to drive, I've always liked the baby TR look. I think these cars are a bargain and very aesthetically pleasing. Sent via itty bitty electrons
Phil, I admire your defense of the 348. I own a UK RHD 348 and have had it for many years and am very glad values have taken off, having paid over the odds at the time, opting for ultra condition and low miles I was beginning to think I'd bought the mongrel of the F bunch, as it just kept heading downward for years. When I said the 348 is a bargain, I am talking 'for a Ferrari'. Even at the high numbers you mention, it is still very much a bargain, 'for a Ferrari'. When I bought mine I could have had a 246 Dino 'flairs n chairs' for exactly the same money (an ex Tetrapack family divorce settlement car, it was sat next to mine at Talacrest), and for just a couple of thousand more I could have had a 512 BBi, so its a painfull look back for me. The fact the 348 is creeping up, even if slightly, is at least some small consolation. I still think, for some world regions (ok, perhaps now not UK RHD), it would be worth a parts car at the current prices.
From the outside looking in from a recent buyer's perspective.... With the goal of being in the black on the purchase over the next couple of years, I started shopping recently with the mindset to purchase either a 348 or 355. I was surprised to see how much the 348 had moved already in value. Seems like that is about $20-$30k over the last 3 years. The 355 value seems to be at the bottom right now with spikes of up turn going on currently. I was already kicking myself for not picking up what I had really wanted, a testarossa, a couple of years ago. So on to another mid engine something. And that meant a 355 or prior F car as the later cars just don't do it for me right now. Perhaps that will change in time. The 348 is a nice looking car. Granted the slats and taillights are take them or leave them. But I like them just as the factory delivered them. I think most people appreciate the car's appearance. Very unique for the F car era. Its a very attractive car. The door cards look a little niche 80s, but the rest of the interior is great. I suppose the door cards carry the slat design inside a bit. I don't see the 348's lower power an issue. I am not buying the car for all out driving, but more for the style, the art of the car. The handling would have never seen the limit with me. And when compared to the 355, the 348 seems to be more tame mechanically. No talk of grand major issues that tend to hit the 355 from time to time and drain the wallet tremendously. So the 348 looks pretty good. I wonder whether the value of the 348 will outpace the 355 due to some of the expensive mechanical issues that can hit a 355, or will the value of the 355 outpace the 348 due to the body and interior aesthetics and superior performance specs. That is a toss up right now. And really so was my choice between the two. Current purchase price, available color, condition of what was offered was what ultimately drove my decision. I really liked that TB that was at 90k. Of course the ask was not in the cards for me. I ended up with a very nice 99 F1 Spider in TDF on tan because of the value was enough that I rolled the dice on the future issues and because it will look great in the garage next to my azzurro 308.
Hindsight would be a wonderful thing if only it didn't come too late! I can appreciate the gist of what you're saying about parts cars - it's a sad fact of 348 ownership that we're having to rely more and more on parts cars, not for the main mechanical parts but for the more trivial parts such as trim pieces, covers, heating/air-con parts, body parts etc., etc. However, the cheapest 348's in the UK right now are LHD's and are on the market for @ £32K+ ($49K+), and that to Me just seems to be a lot of money to pay just to get some parts (and I can't see you recouping anything like the original cost of the car from the parts TBH! ). As I say though, if you can afford to buy a 2nd car to use as a parts car then fair play to you!
I'm pretty sure it was accurate, but it's hard to know for sure. A friend did FaceTime with the owner and took a pretty good look at the car virtually. He missed it by a matter of minutes.
Wow, extremely well bought. That is a steal, if the condition was nominally representative of 7k mi. What venue was it sold through? Local classified listing, autotrader, hemmings, etc?
Mines only got 5k on it so they are genuinely out there with daft miles, never get time in it what with kids pursuits, when I do happen to get a few free hrs it's the higher miles 993 that gets dragged out of the garage.
Just ran across at a 91 348 at a small dealer near me... 42k miles, major done 5 years ago, no records, what he thought was "great paint condition" looked like it hadn't been waxed in years. He wanted 50k for it. I have no idea where the value is going to go on these cars... my guess is by the time it goes north of 100k, my car will probably have 100k miles on it because I bought it to drive it.
All original as best as we could tell. No paintwork supposedly. It sold within one hour of being listed on eBay.
I don't think it's the low mileage that is raising eyebrows, it's the low price the car was sold for considering the mileage on the car.
