348 emission

Hi I recently bought a MondialT 94´

The inspection told me that everything was fine except the emission.
HC was 610
CO was 93

What could possible cause this problem, when oil pressure, oil temp and water temp is good?

I hope I did not purchase something that needs a full engine restoration.
Looking forward for feed-back.

BR,

Martin

 

Whooooooo back there tiger
Excessive HC(Hydrocarbons) can be caused from an ignition missfire in your engine or........miss-firing because of excessivly rich or lean air/fuel mixtures.
Excessive CO can be caused by rich air/fuel mixtures.
So.........it all comes down to how your car is performing. Here is a few checks to get you started. Have you got leaking injectors(seized injectors)? Leaking intake manifold gaskets(air leak somewhere)? Miss fire? EGR valve stuck open? Burnt exhaust valves? Excessive blow-by?(do a compression test and leakdown test)? O2 sensors fouled up or playing up?? Maybe even an ECM problem. There is a little involved,but it may also be a simple fix
Hope this has put you on the right track. Good luck brother

 

I have an appointment to do a compression test next Tuesday, The car runs really well and are not backfireing, Oil pressure is OK, Oil and water temp is ok.
The oil looks good as well.

I hope this comes out well, but values are extremely high now, do you think that I should try to return the car??

 

I dunno mate??? Your call on that one?? Maybe you should wait and see what the compression test results are like next Tuesday,then go from there. If that is ok,then it may be a fuel problem,air leak ect.... You can start diagnosing from there till you sort it out. You may want to run it past the previous owner/dealership or used car lot of your mishap and see what they say? If you bought it from a dealer or used car lot,then they may help you with the problem?? I dunno what your situation is sorry

 

Thanks PAP for the support,

I did purchase the car from a quite large dealer who is supposed to be an expert on sportscars, however you never know if they have fooled you totally... I did an inspection-test with the dealer and on that paper everything is ok, but when I registered the car in Sweden the emission values were way to high..
I have been in contact with the dealer so he knows that there is a problem, but as I told him, I will wait until the tests are done on Tuesday and get back to him.
I just hope everything is OK. I've been looking to purchase a F now for 6 years, but never found what I wanted, but I now thought I found it...
If these tests are bad I think this will be the end of my F-story.

 

Don't get too worried yet, there may be a simple explanation (bad sensor etc.).

Is there any blue smoke when you rev the car? Is the oil pressure good?

 

Hi Chris,

Thanx for your support,

I cannot see any blue smoke from the pipes, only some white, but only when I coldstart it in the morning, for half a minute, but I think that is normal to any cars..

Oil pressure has been OK all the time around 5 Bar at 3000rpm and sustainable, 6,x Bar around 4000 rpm.

Martin

 

If you did get it from a dealer,then they should have some sort of warranty for your car. So it may be all ok,IF there is a major problem. But hopefully it will a be simple fix,that the dealer should cover anyways. 6 years in the making?? And you thought you got a good one?? Mate,you probably do have a great car But ive learnt very quick from the guys on here,that a ferrari is like a good woman........very moody. They have their good and bad days. So dont give up now brother. Trust me

 

Thanx PAP for the support.

I also believe that the dealer have some responsorbilities.
In agreement with the dealer I did an independent Test by DECRA, (in Germany), however I thought they were a little bit sloppy performing the test. I even had to ask for some tests, which usually are included.

Anyway, I'll keep everybody informed about the story and what discussions I have with the dealer to try to sort out the problem.

BR,

Martin

 

Cats?

 

Hi Lagerlout,

Could be so!!
I'll make sure they check that on Tuesday as well.

Thanks for the advice.
Any other thoughts that may bring me on the tracks??

Martin

 

Apart from all the "serious" stuff mentioned here and the cats (which I gather you have and you don't have straight through pipes?), it could be the base setting of the MAF's if the reading was taken at idle.

I don't know what they should read for a Mondial, but for a 348 they are "supposed" to be 383 ohms on each MAF. Now, that is all very well and good, but I guarantee you they are set that way (slightly lean) for emmissions not for good off idle throttle response!

I imagine that if they were tweaked you could get the car to run a little richer at idle (only), which wouldn't be great for emmissions, but might be better for things likes coming back to idle after a bit of a run and for initial off idle acceleration. This could be where the problem is, someone might have tweaked them or simply set them incorrectly.

Do a search on here and if you've got a multimeter check it out, it's very simple to do.

 

Dear all thanks for the input, the problem still sustains.

The compression test and leakage test was good, meaning that engine is good, however, I had a Bosch service man checking all the injection parameters and he found out that one of the electronic control units were totally f..ked up. The right one was just telling the injector to pump in lots of fuel, which gives the right cylinder bank too much moisture on any rpms.
My cats also needs to be changed....

Does any one know where I can find used or new electronic control units, for the 348? Also what partnumber, Bosch-number is the correct one?

Too everybodys knowledge... the Autohaus in Germany, (Autoland 2000) where I bought the car does not want to acknowledge, neither take the responsorbility that both the cats and the control unit was long time borken.

Conclusion: Never buy anything at Autoland 2000 in Germany, they just are not a professional dealer and are actually aware of that they are cheating customers.

I look forward to any response.

Martin

 

I believe a 94' T uses BOSCH 0261200489 but I am ready to be corrected. Is there any identification on the unit? - this is the best way to be sure.

Edited to add:
http://www.injectioncorrection.co.uk/index.php?id=models&manufacturer=Peugeot
The part no. above is listed, click the i and ask for a repar/exchange quote, cant do any harm.

There are some places in England that break T's/348's for spares. www.supercars4me.com and www.eurospares.com for example. May be worth asking.

Remember that the EPROM chip programmed for the engine may not come with a replacement unit, you must keep the one you have.

 

Sh*t,thats no good mate! Poor service by Autoland 2000. Hopefully you will get that baby going soon

 

Hi again,

yes, the partnumber is 0261200489.
I will try to see if I can get a hold of one in the UK,

I'll also try a quote. If I decide to go for that, should I give away the whole box or just the chip?

BR,

Martin

 

Before spending a lot of money, simply switch the ECUs. You've got two air/fuel engine ECU's, one behind each passenger/driver seat in a 348 (not sure on Mondial T). They are identical. Swap them.

If an ECU is bad, then your problem will switch sides on your engine. However, if a **sensor** or part (e.g. MAF, spark plug, spark plug wire, etc.)is bad, then the problem will remain on the same side of the engine.

So, if your problem switches sides then you've indeed got a bad ECU. If your problem remains on the same side, then spending $3,000 for a new ECU would do no good.

 

If you do send your ECU away you need to keep the chip, or make very sure the repairer knows that the unit must be returned fitted with your chip. The ECU may be the same as a Peugeot but the program on the chip will be different.

 

Good advice, but that part number looks like a Motronic 2.7 rather than the 2.5 system that most/all of the Mondial T's have.

Here's a partial list: http://webpages.charter.net/aircover/348/Potential%20Ferrari%20348%20ECU%20Replacements.htm

 

Yes, that is a M2.7 part no. Late T's had M2.7 (the list I have says from 93' on but there is nothing to back this date up) and if Martin has read the part no. off the box he has there is no mistake.

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Martin,

1) Pull out the plugs on the Mass Airflow sensors. Get an ammeter and test the resistance of the two outside pins. These should read something like 383 ohms (Carl at Verdi Ferrari in the UK confirmed).
2) Take the plugs out, give them a brushing with a brass brush to clean them (noting any difference in coloring after cleaning),
3) Reset the ECU on a cold engine, by disconnecting the battery at the main switch in next to your right headlight for a couple of minutes
4) a good time to check your throttles are synchronized (they open at the same time, and that you can hear a mild "click" from the throttle sensor when you just apply a small amount of pressure on the throttle cable nut (oil/grease the throttle springs (left and right) and the "elbow" connectors while you are there.
5) Then reconnect the battery, start the engine without using the accelerator and with all electrics off (don't turn anything on-off) and let it idle until the radiator fans come on
6) Go for a slow town drive (most likely to cause fouling on rich mixture) for 20-30 mins - resist the temptation to hit 3500+ rpms.
7) Take out the spark plugs keeping them separated by bank. If a set is darker then the other, you have a clear indication of bank mixture problems - at this point you can swap (repeating all the above steps), one by one, the MAF's, ignition coils (where all the spark plug cables come from) and then ECU's to see if the problem moves side. If there is an odd one out, then you have a cylinder mixture problem indicating either a blocked injector (lighter plug) or a malfunctioning injector (darker plug).

On my T, I found that one MAF was reading 590 ohm and the other 384 ohms. Clearly a misbalance. I also had a significant difference in the idle screw setting for each bank. Usually if there is no "slow down bank x-y" warning , you'll find out that the problem comes down to bank differences in idle air supply, throttle synchronization, ignition coils, individual plug energy supply, MAF settings, throttle position sensor, or bypass valve motors.

Mine is an 89 with a Motronic 2.5. It is rare to get 2.7 models, so make sure both ECU's have the same part numbers to ensure those animals you bought the car from haven't mixed ECU's - they can run on swapped harnesses. Also make sure they haven't removed the check engine light bulbs (you need to remove the speedo/tacho to get access).

I have the maintenance manual for your engine in .pdf (273mb) which I can put on an FTP or mail on CD for you if you want.

Marco...

 

I used to do this for a living, and what you need is a good mechanic. Start with the basics before going too crazy with other stuff. You need to see the waveform that the O2 sensors are genarating. My emissions diagnosises always started with this step. I look for switching time, peak voltage and trough voltage while the engine is @ 2500rpm. If the sensor is flat-lined I force a rich condition, and then a lean condition at look at the sensor response. The goal there is to determine if it's the sensor or an actual upstream condition. 70% of failures are sensor related. When O2 sensors fail they generally go flatline at about 0.3V falsely indicating a lean condition. The ECU's dump gas and meltdown your cats. To be honest those #'s look like inefficient cats. Make sure the car was tested at full temp!!! I don't know how they do it in Sweeden but in California we used to use a two speed stationary test. One @ 2500 rpms and one at idle, Now we use a dynamometer to put the car under load. Of course there are lots of other possiblities but this is the correct way to start. Keep us posted.

 

Where do you live, Martin?
Down south we have a real good guy who used to work for Autoropa. If you live in the south of Sweden send me a PM and I will connect you both.


//BENGT//

 

Without stating the obvious, and as a complete starting point, have you disconnected the battery and let the system "re-learn". After this process, re-test and and pull codes?