348 Engine Misfire / Rough Running ?? | FerrariChat

348 Engine Misfire / Rough Running ??

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by kenyon, Jan 23, 2006.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. kenyon

    kenyon F1 Rookie

    Oct 7, 2002
    2,837
    East Yorkshire
    Full Name:
    Justin Kenyon
    348 Engine Misfire / Rough Running ??

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Guys, Need some help.

    After a high speed run (maxed the car out @ 300 KPH) for approximate 15 miles. I have developed a roughness with the engine. Its back firing and popping at idle and down shifting and the has lost its responsivness through the rev range. It does rev all the way but seems to be holding back. The cylinder check lights have not come on. I am getting black particulates building up on the exhaust ends. The exhaust ends used to be grey whitish deposit. The engine / exhaust note seems different to, more a a TVR sound instead of ferrari scream sound through the rev range.

    The car is going in a major service in the next week.
    I have looked at the spark plugs and they are OK but they do need changing a little worn, the spark leads are sparking and seem OK because I can hear the clicking nosie of the eletrode when you remove the lead from the plug while the car is running.

    Could I have a bad lamber sensor and is that same as the 02 sensor ?

    Maxing the car out for 15 miles could I have cooked the exhaust sensors ?
    I have not cats and a tubi on.

    The engine temperature and water temperature where fine. No smoke appearing from car on idle or while driving it. It seems to be a electrical fault somewhere. The car has never had any problems before. They car ecu's do work. When I disconnect them the slow down lights come abd go off when I connect them back up.

    Any ideas, much appreciated.
     
  2. PassionIsFerrari

    PassionIsFerrari Formula 3

    Aug 15, 2004
    2,454
    You have a solid connection with the plugs and wires? Have you tried contact cleaner on the wire ends...Mine was running a tad rough and this helped me.

    The lambda sensor is the same thing as an o2 sensor....From what I have heard, if an o2 sensor is going bad, you will for sure get a check engine 1-4 or 5-8...not sure again though....

    I would touch up a lot of your electrical connections with Stabiliant 22 or some kind of contact cleaner as a starter...
     
  3. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
    72,740
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways
    Justin, your Slow Down Lights aren't really going to be triggered on your car because you don't have cats.

    http://webpages.charter.net/aircover/348/1994Ferrari348Spider.html#SlowDownLights

    Those warning lights are heat-triggered, and your test pipes are not going to get hot enough to trigger them.

    Unfortunately, that hurts the diagnostic process a bit for your car...because you don't know if you've got a fouled spark plug, or on which side, or a bad spark plug wire, or which side it might be, or if either coil pack is bad (or MAF).

    Also, keep in mind that your O2 sensors are *ignored* when you are at full throttle...so if you are seeing different behavior when your accelerator is to the floor than when you are at partial throttle, it may warrant checking O2 sensors.

    The good news is that you aren't seeing white or grey or black exhaust smoke at idle. That rules out some fair amount of really nasty possibilities.

    My **guess** would be that you are running too lean (that's the typical backfire problem)...except the black soot exhaust seems like the other way around...such as you've got a bad spark plug wire or fouled spark plug. A bad plug wire on the 348 can manifest itself under inconsistent circumstances (e.g. between 5,000 and 7,000 rpms only).

    But the cheap test would be to simply replace all 8 spark plugs. For a **test**, the $2 Champion OEM spark plugs would do fine to tell you if your problem was from fouled plugs or not. Since you ran at peak speed prior to encountering your issue, this would be a good test.

    Other possibilities would include a fuel pump going bad, or a bad fuel pressure regulator, or simply a clogged/bad fuel filter. These items, if malfunctioning, could cause a lean condition.

    You'll want to get an air/fuel mixture sniffer (e.g. wideband lambda) to test to see if you are venting fuel or running way, way lean (which the pros could probably tell you just from your description of the exhaust soot color that you gave).
     
  4. chrisx666

    chrisx666 Formula Junior

    Dec 6, 2004
    562
    YorkshireUK
    Full Name:
    Chris B
    Try re-setting the ECU's first - it's free to try. Most Euro cars do not put a check engine light on even if there are stored codes.

    Disconnect the battery for a few mins, reconnect and start the car without touching the accelerator pedal. Leave ticking over for 10 minutes before driving.
     
  5. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
    72,740
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways
    Chris is right to tell you to reset the ECU's (after all, that's a free thing to check/try)...BUT...pull your trouble codes first! Resetting your ECU's will erase your trouble codes, and you may need that information if this is a sporadic, tough to duplicate problem.
     
  6. kenyon

    kenyon F1 Rookie

    Oct 7, 2002
    2,837
    East Yorkshire
    Full Name:
    Justin Kenyon
    guys thanks for your help;
    Will report back.

    Its odd to get back fire, pooping noise from the exhaust on tick over. Some else mentioned the os sensors...
     
  7. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
    72,740
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways

    It's common to get a backfire when you are running too lean.

    O2 sensors are ignored when your engine is cold, and are ignored when you are at full throttle.

    So if you get a backfire at idle when the engine is cold, then it isn't from the O2 sensors ('cause they're ignored!).
     
  8. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 19, 2001
    22,620
    The Brickyard
    Full Name:
    The Bad Guy
    Here is what I would check for starters:

    1) MAFS connections, and inside the sensor. Make sure it isn't dirty inside. If you are using a K&N filter (or any filter that needs to be oiled) you may have gotten some of the oil on the air temp wire. Non-residue electrical contact cleaner can be used to clean off the inside of the MAFS.

    2) The connection on the back of the intake cam sensor. Looking at the engine from the back it's on the right hand side of the engine, just behind the air box and under the MAFS.

    3) The connections for the O2 sensors. They are located between the oil filter and under the air box. You may even want to pull the O2 sensors and check the condition of them. Since your car is chipped you may have fouled them by running a bit rich.

    4) Spark plugs. Pull those to see if they are also fouled by having the mixture rich.

    5) Check your vacume tubes. Make sure you didn't have any come loose.

    6) Crank position sensors. You'll have to get under the car for this one. They are on the bottom and to the side of the crank pully.

    7) Water temp sending unit connection. It's located under the intake plenum. Remove the air box to get at it better.
     
  9. PassionIsFerrari

    PassionIsFerrari Formula 3

    Aug 15, 2004
    2,454
    Sorry to hijack....but.....

    What does white smoke at idle look like? My car puts out a lot of exhaust at start up, I am either just recently noticing it or my car has just started doing it because the weather is colder... It seems like a lot, but to me, I figured it was normal because my car doesn't have cats. The exhaust tends to settle down a lot after the car has been running for a while (either that or I stop paying attention to it)...

    Do you notice a lot more exhaust smoke in colder weather?

    Car runs fine except for this exhaust whine which I have had forever....I'm thinking it could be a leak in the muffler gasket or exhaust manifold gasket.

    Another Fchat rode in it about 5 months ago (he has a 348 also) and said that his car def. doesn't whine like mine....maybe someone this weekend will be able to troubleshoot it.
     
  10. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
    72,740
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways
    I'll get a small amount of white smoke on startup on a cold day if I haven't driven my 348 within the past day.

    Right or wrong, I chalk it up to "oil settling" and don't pay it much attention.
     
  11. plugzit

    plugzit F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 1, 2004
    7,793
    Redondo Beach, CA
    Full Name:
    Bruce Bogart
    I would definitely do a compression and leakdown test on this car. Burnt valves will do all sorts of funny things to mixtures as fire and pressure is going to places it shouldn't. Is the popping from the exhaust or intake? By the way, cooking valves is a manly thing to do!
     
  12. kenyon

    kenyon F1 Rookie

    Oct 7, 2002
    2,837
    East Yorkshire
    Full Name:
    Justin Kenyon

    Popping from exhaust.
     
  13. andrewg

    andrewg F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    Sep 10, 2002
    4,667
    Chester, England
    Full Name:
    AndrewG
    As well as the oxygen sensor it could also be a small crack / leak in the exhaust manifold's (which could also account for the TVR'esque noise)
     
  14. plugzit

    plugzit F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 1, 2004
    7,793
    Redondo Beach, CA
    Full Name:
    Bruce Bogart
    Could be burnt exh valve. Easy cheap check if you don't have a compression tester (around $20 or so at parts store) is to disconnect plug wires one by one, til you find the one that stops the popping when disconnected. BE SURE TO USE INSULATED PLIERS AND GLOVES OR YOU'LL GET A SURPRISE! Alternatively, disconnect the wires to each injector one by one. A good time to check your injectors anyway-a bad injector will cause a lean condition in that cylinder, thus extra heat= burnt valves. Unburnt fuel getting by exh valve at compression may burn in the exhaust (pop), ugly black soot in exhaust pipe. Hope it's just an electronic problem.
    If it's an exhaust valve, pm me for a good source.
     
  15. kenyon

    kenyon F1 Rookie

    Oct 7, 2002
    2,837
    East Yorkshire
    Full Name:
    Justin Kenyon
    Guys, Thanks for your help. I am going to try all your advice at the weekend. Will let you know.

    Very Much appreciated.
     

Share This Page