348 Engine Out!! | Page 7 | FerrariChat

348 Engine Out!!

Discussion in '348/355' started by FandLcars, Apr 4, 2008.

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  1. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Ten Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 10, 2005
    100,204
    Mount Isa, Australia
    Full Name:
    Pap
    Nice work Rick, truely nice work! :D:D

    Seeing your pics gets me all excited and makes me want to go and rip my engine out to do the same work! :D:D
     
  2. troy_wood

    troy_wood Formula 3

    Apr 28, 2007
    1,457
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    Full Name:
    Troy Wood
    Thanks for showing all your work Rick. Do you think your torque wrench is out of calibration or were the threads already weak? (for the idler bearing)
     
  3. FandLcars

    FandLcars F1 Rookie

    Aug 6, 2006
    3,057
    Tempe, Az
    Full Name:
    Rick Schumm
    #153 FandLcars, Dec 10, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2008
    Thanks for the encouragement, guys! I'm trying to do a good, thorough job. It will go a LOT faster on the next major in 5 yrs (OK, maybe 4 after this long :)).

    That was a question I also had. One thing that concerned me was that the cap screw only had about 1/2 of the length of the helicoil engaging. That would increase stress on the threads actually engaging. It's possible the cap screw was not correct length, and/or that this was over-torqued at some point previously. There is no torque spec. listed anywhere for these cap screws, and I asked the question in a technical thread and rec'd 1 response from someone who used 35ft-lbs. I did my own research, and had a hard time finding any good info online for aluminum. But for a 10mm helicoil, in which the outer helicoil threads were even larger diameter, it seemed to me at least 30ft-lbs should not be a problem. I reach 35 with no problem on the adjustable tensioner, as I mentioned, but never reached 30 with the fixed one before it stripped.

    I also thought of the torque wrench calibration issue. I have a Bonney/Utica ratcheting click wrench that I purchased at NAPA many years ago. I have taken excellent care of it... always return it to low end after using it, and never seriously banged or dropped. Nevertheless, I also checked it against my Snap-on Inch-pound click torque wrench which has been used very little since I bought it. I set the Snap on at 200 in-lb, and tightened a screw, then used my large one to check. It was within a couple ft-lbs of the inch-lb wrench, so I don't think it is the main cause of the problem, especially since I had the other tensioner torqued up a couple times to 35 without a problem. I will plan to get the large one calibrated anyway, JTBS. Fixed now!
     
  4. FandLcars

    FandLcars F1 Rookie

    Aug 6, 2006
    3,057
    Tempe, Az
    Full Name:
    Rick Schumm
    Just another caution on the belt tensioner.... The WSM states that the proper point at which to tighten the adjustable tensioner is when the tensioner is at it's greatest extension.

    If you turn the engine CW, and watch the tensioner, it WILL move in and out as you turn the engine. It probably moves at least 3/16" from the in to the out position, or perhaps a bit more. So be sure that the tensioner is ALL the way out when you tighten the tensioner.

    After installing the new insert for my fixed tensioner and finishing the cam timing, I rotated the engine a lot, and made sure that the belt rides true in the cam gears/cogs. Everything lines up fine, and the belt does not ride against any of the gear "fences", which I think could damage the belt, and even the fences.
     
  5. FandLcars

    FandLcars F1 Rookie

    Aug 6, 2006
    3,057
    Tempe, Az
    Full Name:
    Rick Schumm
    When you do, PAP, you'll have all the help you need from the Brothers here on Fchat!! :)
     
  6. FandLcars

    FandLcars F1 Rookie

    Aug 6, 2006
    3,057
    Tempe, Az
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    Rick Schumm
    Thanks Ernie! I did check some for play when the covers were off, but didn't notice any. Everything seemed tight. So I'm just going to get the car back together, drive it, and listen for any developing noises! :D
     
  7. FandLcars

    FandLcars F1 Rookie

    Aug 6, 2006
    3,057
    Tempe, Az
    Full Name:
    Rick Schumm
    #157 FandLcars, Dec 31, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Still making progress on getting my 348 back on the road. I am planning to have it back together and back on the road by end of January. This will include my new Goth Exhaust!

    One of the biggest jobs left is that I'm still going to repaint the main part of the subframe. Degreasing has been a problem... I've used degreaser, Dawn dishwashing liquid (good on grease... I use it to wash up), and a heat gun to try to degrease the frame, but it's hard getting it all off. First area I repainted showed some fisheyes. A pain, but just takes time and work. I've finished all the engine degreasing.

    The valve covers took a lot of work, after I had them powder coated. Even though I asked them to just blast the outside, they also blasted the inside of the covers, including the gasket surfaces. So I had to dress them, which took a lot of time. As I mentioned before, I did sand/stone off the powder coat to highlight the Ferrari lettering, etc. and I painted them with satin clear engine paint, to try to keep them nicer over time. I also replaced all radiator hoses, which I originally didn't think of doing, but now's the best time! Still lots to do, but I want to take the car to the Feb Cars & Coffee here. :)
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  8. gothspeed

    gothspeed F1 World Champ

    May 26, 2006
    10,244
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    goth
    :eek: ............ it is looking reeeeeeal good Rick :)!!!! With the results you are getting ........ I think the pace you have been going is just fine ........ :D!!!
     
  9. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Ten Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 10, 2005
    100,204
    Mount Isa, Australia
    Full Name:
    Pap
    Looking great there Rick! :D:D

    How did you get the engine block, gearbox and pumpkin come up so clean?? :eek::eek:

    Just some degreaser and A LOT of elbow grease?? Or did you paint it? :D:D
     
  10. FandLcars

    FandLcars F1 Rookie

    Aug 6, 2006
    3,057
    Tempe, Az
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    Rick Schumm
    Pap - anything I can put in my small solvent tank, I just clean it there (mineral spirits). For the block, etc., it was just Gunk spray can degreaser and wiping it down. I like the look of raw machinery, so I didn't paint anything, but the block may have been painted before... not sure. It does look nice, although I think the camera flash brightens things up a bit too. Some things are a little different shade.

    BTW - for the new cam cover acorn nuts, I just ordered them from www.fastenal.com. They had some that were a little taller than stock, which I think look good. Happy New Year Guys!
     
  11. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Ten Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 10, 2005
    100,204
    Mount Isa, Australia
    Full Name:
    Pap

    Im with you mate, "raw metal" looks GREAT! :D:D

    What you have done so far in this thread is basically the same plan I have for my engine out. I also want to paint the engine cradle, so I will have to see which way I go about that. Either lift the engine out and do it properly, or leave the engine in and mask it as best as we can so my friend can paint it. Will have to see what happens there. ;);)

    What size/thread are those acorn nuts mate?? 6mm?? :):)
     
  12. FandLcars

    FandLcars F1 Rookie

    Aug 6, 2006
    3,057
    Tempe, Az
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    Rick Schumm

    Right Pap... 6mm. They didn't have standard height acorns at Fastenal, but I think these look good, and extra room to avoid having the stud push out the top of the nut sheet metal top (but shouldn't happen normally anyway). I may still have the Fastenal P?N, but have to leave in 5min, so will see if I can find it and will post it. :)
     
  13. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Ten Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 10, 2005
    100,204
    Mount Isa, Australia
    Full Name:
    Pap
    Cool, good guess! :p:p

    If you can give me the part number, that will be great. I will try and get some here 1st, worst case I will get some from them. :):)

    I have access to ALL new nuts and bolts at work, but we dont have acorn nuts there sadly. :):)

    Actually, we can probably order some in. What is the height of the standard Ferrari acorn nuts Rick? Or even these ones from Fastenal will do. ;);)
     
  14. FandLcars

    FandLcars F1 Rookie

    Aug 6, 2006
    3,057
    Tempe, Az
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    Rick Schumm
    #164 FandLcars, Jan 1, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hey Pap - The stock acorn nut (6mm M6-1.0) height seems to be about 9.9mm. The ones I got from Fastenal are about 11.9mm per my measurements. The new ones are stainless steel @$0.65 each, but they also have zinc plated for around $0.48 or so each. You can buy them individually; don't have to buy a box. I didn't look at the zinc ones, so not sure if they are identical to the stainless ones I bought. Here's a link to the Fastenal page..

    http://www.fastenal.com/web/products/detail.ex?sku=MA2550000A20000

    PS - ignore the stock Fastenal pic. Below are a couple pics of a stock one and one of the new ones for comparison. Also, my friend Steve I believe said he special ordered acorn nuts at Home Depot here in Phoenix. Doesn't hurt to ask around.
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  15. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Ten Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 10, 2005
    100,204
    Mount Isa, Australia
    Full Name:
    Pap

    Thanks mate, I will look into it. ;);)
     
  16. gothspeed

    gothspeed F1 World Champ

    May 26, 2006
    10,244
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    goth
    This thread is an inspiration !!!! Using SS hardware is one of my favorite 'upgrades' also .......... just ask any stooge ........ ;)
     
  17. PAULSPEED

    PAULSPEED Rookie

    Jan 27, 2007
    35
    Nice post. I really like the pictures. If
    you have any more problems locating hardware, you may
    want to try this site below. Alot of the bolts are
    expensive but they do have a big selection.
    http://www.aircraftspruce.com/
    Paul
     
  18. UConn Husky

    UConn Husky F1 Rookie

    Nov 11, 2006
    4,424
    CT
    Full Name:
    Jay
    great engine pics there Rick...just keep playing some youtube videos of 348 engines to keep you going through the home stretch! :D
     
  19. flxzcat

    flxzcat Karting

    Sep 16, 2008
    143
    lake forest, ca.
    Full Name:
    paul van der linden
    Paul,

    The problem with aircraft spruce is that they deal in standard sizes only, no metric. Good bolts though.

    Cheers,
    P
     
  20. PAULSPEED

    PAULSPEED Rookie

    Jan 27, 2007
    35
    With all of there hardware I never knew they
    did not stock metric.
    Paul
     
  21. flyinlo

    flyinlo Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 30, 2005
    195
    San Jose, CA
    Full Name:
    Jeffrey Lo
    When you look at who Spruce caters to it makes a lot of sense. It is primarily guys in the US building their own airplane, and they are primarily using AN hardware when they aren't using what they can find at OSH (or "Orchard Aircraft Supply" as it is often known as) for non-critical items. And given a choice of common, easy to find SAE sizes or metric, for which they probably don't even have the drill bits, it all ends up being SAE/AN sized hardware.
     
  22. saw1998

    saw1998 F1 Veteran

    Jun 8, 2008
    8,237
    San Antonio, Texas
    Full Name:
    Scott
    #172 saw1998, Jan 13, 2009
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2009
  23. 285ferrari

    285ferrari Two Time F1 World Champ
    Sponsor

    Sep 11, 2004
    20,951
    MD and NE
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    Robbie
    What an awesome thread!!!
     
  24. FandLcars

    FandLcars F1 Rookie

    Aug 6, 2006
    3,057
    Tempe, Az
    Full Name:
    Rick Schumm
    Hope it helps other owners Robbie! My hope is that other owners can see what worked or even what didn't work for me.
     
  25. FandLcars

    FandLcars F1 Rookie

    Aug 6, 2006
    3,057
    Tempe, Az
    Full Name:
    Rick Schumm
    I need to follow up on the the info I posted earlier in this Thread on my dual-disk clutch replacement. After installing the clutch, I hadn't gotten around to bolting the nut cover back on (with the cavallino/horsie on it). I decided to do that yesterday as I was trying to finish other small items here and there. However, I noticed that the cover would not mount flush, and seemed to be hitting the ring nut. I remember seeing another thread in which another owner said his nut had chewed up his cover.

    I found that the bearing was not flush and was sticking out some, and must have been keeping the cover from fitting flush. The cross-sectional drawing in the WSM (gearbox), showed that when the ringnut was fully tightened, that it would leave the bearing flush, and capture or lock the bearing in place. When I first removed the ringnut, the center "grub screw" seemed to be sticking in past the inner surface of the nut. So when I reinstalled the nut, I left the grub screw in this same position, and just tightened the nut (yeah- I read the famous "grub screw" thread).

    It seems the grub screw kept the ringnut from fully locking the bearing in, and and may have even acted to help force the bearing out a bit from flush. At any rate, I removed the clutch again yesterday, removed the ringnut,, backed the grub screw all the way out, and then re-tightened the ringnut, which forced the bearing into it's flush position. I then tightened the grub screw down as tight as I could. All's well now, and I reinstalled the clutch and installed the cover without a problem. :)
     

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