Send a little brisk weather your way and look what happens......brain function slows and rational thought goes to the dogs. Now you will have Kris looking for a hidden account because all she see's is money going out with all of these projects, now your in trouble! I just got frustrated enough that if I couldn't buy something that dealt with all of the issues at hand, I would build it. I was delighted to find that the company I am dealing with was happy enough to hear that I insisted everything being made was MADE IN USA that they gave me full and direct access to his entire engineering and production staff. Seems his staff is having a good time with these projects because a conference call leads to solutions and decisions made on the spot where I have received prototype's of a given project 3 days after discussing it. No 15 page proposals followed by months of red tape before decisions are made.... these are some real pro's that know their business. The holidays came at a difficult time this year as it took the momentum out of all these projects but they are now up to speed again. If I could only find that big bank account you speak about I could do them all at once rather than picking and choosing the black holes to throw money at.
Ernie, You are thinking checkers here and Dave is playing chess. I'm a lot less polite than Dave. That hose is fine for its purpose as a piece of fuel hose. The problem is that hose is not appropriate for the application. When I built by first racecar from a streetcar it was the 348. I spent untold hours thinking about why the OEM manufacturer did things the way they did. You and I are not engineers but if we are going to change things we need to think like them especially with safety items. They have all kinds of cool stuff in seatbelt design integral with the seat, double shear joints, extra shear planes in the steering column dispite having a collapsible steering shaft,etc. The last thing I did not do was put a fuel cell in. The reason was, I could not design a system with better compromises than Ferrari. I could have been right in that choice. Remember I'm a member of the "upside down racing club" and tested that fuel system. Not a drop of fuel spilled from the OEM system. You even have to make sure your fuel evap emission system works. It's a smog device but also part of the safety system. I had crash damage that could have easily moved the fuel door area several inches from the fuel tank. A fuel accordian may hold. A fuel hose would pull off the nipples and dump 15 gallons of fuel very fast. Now that is a Car-B-Que.
No worries Chubba. I was actually thinkin "gitter-dun". Like I said first things first, I need to get the car on the road. The filler hose is just temporary anyway.
Hi there Ernie, just removed the pumps from my tank to rebuild them. Thanks for sharing how you did yours. I do have a question about the welding on your tank, I to have a loose baffle in my tank and not sure what to do with it ? did you get yours cut open and remove the baffle ? or did you cut open then re-weld the baffle back in ? Thanks Paul
Paul, This is what I found loose in my 355 tank and the edges were very sharp getting it out. I left it out and I just could not see where it was originally fitted (if anywhere). BTW, should also thank Ernie for an excellent thread. I found some debris around the pumps but it did not appear to be from rubber deterioration. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
You need to be VERY careful with that. If there are ANY fuel fumes left in the tank it WILL explode. No joke! I had the tank out of my car for so long (over 5 months) that all the fumes had evaporated. So it wasn't a problem. But the guy that welded my tank up told my that you would need to wash it out with water and liquid soap. You would need to put in just a little bit of liquid soap, shoot some water in the tank, and then slosh it around. Rinse it out thoroughly, then stick your nose in there and see if you smell ANYTHING at all like fuel. If you do, repeat the process until you don't smell anything at all. Though one of the welders I talked to said that they could hit the tank with some sort of inert gas (which one I don't remember?????) while they were cutting it open. Though I still would have washed it out, several times. I haven't learned how to weld, yet alone on aluminum, so I had a shop out here cut it open, remove the 2 loose baffles, and weld it back up for me. I just wanted to get the car back on the road. But if I was to do it again I would have the entire tank cut open and the baffles welded back into place with some nice seem welds, not the crapass spot welds that the factory did. The problem with the factory welds is that they pulled out, which is how I got the leak in the first place. Anyway, the baffles are in there for a reason. They keep the fuel from sloshing around, from one side to the other, when you are going around a corner. So if you don't have any baffling in the tank you can end up starving one of the fuel pumps if the fuel is all the way to one side. The baffling slows this down, it doesn't stops the fuel from shifting, it just slows it down. In my tank the baffling around each of the fuel pumps is still there, but the middle baffle is gone, as is one other baffle that was next to the fuel sender (if I'm remembering correctly). So. I would make sure that A L L of the fumes are out of the tank, cut it open, put some nice seem welds on all the baffles, then weld it back up. Keep in mind that will NOT be cheap if you have someone else do the work for you. The welder I used charged me by the hour. So whatever the hourly welding rates are in your area is what you can use to figure out what you will be spending to get it fixed.
Yeah baby, that's what I'm talking about, some battle scars! LOL!!! That baffle was the second busted off piece I pulled out of my tank also. That is the one I think (?) goes next to the fuel level sender.
I welded a fitting on an aluminum tank one time. I filled the tank with water right up to the fitting to expel the fumes. It was kind of funny because I could see a little flame in the middle of the fitting while I was welding it. I'd squeeze the sides of the tank and watch the flame go up and down!
Terry and Ernie thanks for your Replies. Terry i think mine is loose between the 2 fuel pumps and at the top of the tank. I can feel and can see the part, it looks around 6 inches wide and does not look like the one in your photo. I can see no other way to remove it other than to open up the tank? My issue with this is the swarf caused from cutting open the tank, i am not sure of getting it all out?? The way I see it if I cut it like Ernies photo you will not expose the entire tank so cleaning it out may proved hard, as there have got to be some hard to reach areas. I dont want to make more issues for myself. I have been thinking about leaving it floating around but again not sure about that ?? Will it make a noise when driving down the road? Ernie i will be welding it up here in my shop, i have welded quite a few tanks over the years with and still have all my fingers and arms. The way to neutralise the vapours is to put the tank over a car exhaust as Co2 and carbon monoxide acts as a inert gas. I old boy taught me this years ago when i was helping him brazed up on an old BSA bike fuel tank.
Ernie/DaveHelms; Do you think that the ethanol in the fuel is what caused this rubber sleave/gasket to disintegrate (post # 56 & 57), as well as the shredded rubber bits found on the bottom of the fuel pump in post # 14?
I would imagine it has something to do with it. The cars running E85 have to have special fuel lines and injectors to handle the level of alcohol in the fuel. So I would imagine just the little bit added to "normal" unleaded isn't good for the rubber. Say Dave, any word on those Viton Sleeves?
I think I ended up sourcing them from a hydraulic shop. Take the bottom pump hosing with you to the hydraulic shop and have them match it up. Be sure to get Viton not Buan, again get Viton rubber o-rings.
Another update fellas. I bought a spare fuel tank a couple of months ago. Today I pulled the fuel pumps out of the spare tank to inspect the condition of the pumps and the vibration sleeves. It's a good thing I did. Can anyone see a problem? Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I pulled the pump out of the cup, and looky what I see. Why it's deteriorated rubber, ALL OVER THE PLACE! So listen to me guys. Change The Vibration Dampening Sleeves On Your 348s Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Here is another pic of the dry rotted sleeve. Have a look at the date stamped on the bottom fuel pump housing, it's a '92. That's 20 years boys, two decades. The rubber used to make these sleeve does not last. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Thanks for posting. It's starting to look as though replacing this part will need to be added to the "to do" list with the major service, or at least every other major. While I wouldn't expect something to last forever, that's a serious (and scary) amount of deterioration.
Yes it is, and it happens on every car, EVERY SINGLE ONE. If you haven't changed out your pump sleeves do it.
And a couple more pics to reiterate my point. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Ernie, It has been some 4 years since your first pump rebuilds. Since you got a nice new tank are you going to rebuild these pumps or swap out the old rebuilt pumps into the new tank? I'm curious to see what the 4 year old rubber looks like if you do the swap. Post up some pictures and your impressions of that 4 y/o rubber.
Good call Ernie. You should have seen the mess Dave Helms pulled out of my tanks a couple years ago. The other thing you should do is pull the fuel filters and cut one open. I bet you see a very fine black residue inside the filters (see below). It is from this same source. If your filters have the black residue might as well pull the fuel rails and injectors and get them cleaned up as well. There really is so much to look into to keep these cars running and maintained properly. Image Unavailable, Please Login
I'm curious to see what the sleeves in the car now look like too, so I'm gonna swap them. Don't worry I'll be posting up pics when I do the swap.
