Nice hearing from you Mark. Thanks for sharing. :)
Thanks for filling in some of the blanks, Mark. It's a beautiful car and you did an awesome job enhancing it. Too bad the current owner is not so knowledgeable. Do you remember enough about the before/after driving characteristics to offer some feedback on the suspension upgrades? Are the H&R springs sufficiently stiffer to make a real difference?
Happy to Pap. That article is excellent for recognition of a great car that stands on its own without the gushing. But it's factually incorrect and implies a uniqueness that I believe these cars lack. The article made it sound as though the Challenge cars cured the 348's "weird diabolical handling characteristics" when the suspension setup was no different than other late model 348's (wheel offset aside). When Ryan approached me about selling the car, it was actually the lack of the 348 Challenge car's uniqueness that caused me to sell it and later buy the car that I originally wanted, a 355. That said, I had seller's remorse starting day 1 and wish the car were back in my garage (next to the 355). It's a very dialed-in car.
Perhaps he doesn't know its recent history? The H&R springs weren't intended to have a different spring rate, which is why Bradan installed them rather than simply lowering the car with the stock springs. I wanted to get the center of gravity a bit lower while still being able to get in/out of my driveway. I'd say in 2008, the handling was good but could be a bit twitchy. it didn't inspire a lot of confidence at speed and the back end came around a bit too easily. By the time the springs were installed, rear shocks rebuilt, Speedline wheels installed, Challenge spec alignment, and over 100 lbs shed, the handling was sublime. Much more stable at speed and reduced oversteer (very neutral feel). Bradan did a great job setting it up. Of course, my memory is now several years dated.
Mark, I am not sure if you remember this but when I installed all of the Challenge parts on the car and set it up (not the suspension of course), I ended up using a different set of Challenge wheels on the car. I got them from an Fchatter in Seattle and sent them out to get powder coated gold/bronze. I think that the set of Challenge wheels that I sold you are now with Robb Williamson for his car.
Yes, I have that set. I don't see any issues with the article or what most posters are upset about. The 348 challenge was the most refined of those cars and came with substantial improvements to tackle high speed driving quirks that the early cars exhibited. It did all things better. What Ferrari learned from the 348 challenge was applied to the F355 road car and challenge development. Ferrari was in bad straights back then (along with many car companies) with a global recession and 348's sat on dealer floors. The challenge program helped move cars and definitely spurred more enthusiasm. I have just digitized a couple old VHS tapes I located covering the 348 challenge and will post links in the challenge section soon when they are up on YouTube. After following a very capable 348 challenge on track last weekend, I would definitely give a hearty thumbs up. Is the 348 challenge a better car than the 348 tb or gtb? Yes, easily. Just like the F355 challenge is also better than the F355 Berlinetta - easily. But It doesn't make the other cars less desirable. Robb
This is untrue. As so many others have said, there were no mechanical differences between this Challenge car and a standard later model TB. The Challenge kit was safety gear and minor brake enhancements, period. Sure, the setup was different, but that can be just as easily applied to any car throughout the model run. The same is true for the enhancements that Mark & Ryan installed—all of that can be done to a standard TB and the car would drive just like the one in the Petrolicious piece. There is no magic in the fact that it’s a Challenge car other than the rarity of being one of very few with the factory installed cage mounts. Again, untrue. The cars were the same. If you set up a late 348 to Challenge specs it will drive just the same. Also, you can retrofit the factory updates to any earlier car, as I'm sure was done to the many early 348 Challenge race cars which were built on the allegedly "quirky" earlier standard production chassis. So you could get a standard production '89 model to drive just like the car under discussion by retrofitting the factory updates, installing the same aftermarket enhancements, and using the same setup.
Well hold on for a second. The 1994 and 1995 cars have different suspension pick up points (identical to the 355). Does it have to be a Challenge car to have them? No. However, in the US, the only non-spiders to have them were the 15 series 2 Series Special cars and the 45 Challenge cars. I have never seen a 1994 or 1995 non-spider US car other than those. Now, the rest of the world got coupes and targas all the way to 1995 so they have that suspension but not us. And this is one of those points where I would love to be proven wrong and shown a US 1994 car that's a non-spider, non-Challenge, non-SS S2 car.
According to info posted here the rear suspension mounting points were moved in June of '92, however I'm unaware of any US spec standard TBs or TSs with build dates after that (which is by no means saying there weren't any). Are you aware of any chassis changes subsequent to June of '92? As I'm sure you know, the 6/92 chassis mod moved the rear A arm pivot points downward in the chassis by ~1". This is not difficult to do to a pre-6/92 car, although the lower mounting forks are $pendy for what they are. It has long been my assumption that this mod was done to make the cars more stable with a higher-than-originally-intended ride height. My guess is that the suspension was originally designed with a lower ride height in mind but that proved impractical in testing so Maranello fitted taller springs and called it a day. Only that jacked with the handling characteristics, hence the later revision. Of course, these are assumptions so they could be wrong. But what I do know is that you can lower a pre-6/92 car ~1" and it's as stable as a Challenge car as long as the alignment is right and the rest of the suspension is in good shape. And in any event, I don’t think the effects of the rear geometry change are quite as dramatic as they’re frequently made out to be, but perhaps that’s because well set-up early cars are lowered anyway. I think the big benefit of the revised mounting points is being able to more easily drive the car on the street. Edit: I checked the VIN records I've collected and the latest production date I can verify for a US spec TS or TB was October, 1991. I'm sure there are numerically higher VINs than what I have, but perhaps not built later than 6/92. In which case there is at least one minor but substantive difference between the factory built Challenge cars and the production cars. However, I think it's important to note that there were lots of non-factory Challenge cars (more than the factory built ones IIRC) which were presumably built before 6/92 and I think they were still competitive cars. As I said above, I’m not so sure the revised rear mounting points made much difference once the car was lowered. Strangely, the 355 rear suspension diagrams show mounting forks similar to the early 348 pieces. Yet another edit: I checked the factory parts book for the 348. It shows the rear suspension mounting point change took place at chassis 91402 (TB) and 91477 (TS). I have records of regular production US spec TBs and TSs well beyond those chassis numbers. Assuming the parts book is correct then the 6/92 changeover date posted here is incorrect and there are indeed US TBs and TSs that share their rear suspension geometry with the factory Challenge cars. Also note that none of this changes the gripe that some of us have with the inaccuracies in the Petrolicious piece, which claims that the Challenge cars were much different than the production cars. Even if no US TS or TB had the different mounting points (which seems unlikely based on the factory parts manual) the Spiders and SSs did indeed have the revised mounting points. So the claims made by Petrolicious remain debunked. Gorgeous car & photos, crap article.
From the 348 Challenge parts diagrams on Ricambi's site it appears that, other than safety gear, the differences between Challenge and regular production cars were different anti-roll bar bushes, perhaps different rear suspension bushes, front & rear brake cooling ducts, race compound pads, different exhaust, lighter front & rear bumpers, lighter battery, racing clutch disc, and the previously discussed rear suspension mounting point change. So certainly some minor upgrades for track use, but nothing compared to what we do to other cars to make them suitable for track use. I think this speaks extremely well of the original car-- how many early '90s designs could be raced reliably with so few modifications?
So that was my wheel set, which was a spare set off my 355 Ch. Ryan, any chance you can send me the gold/bronze paint code? I like how they turned out.
They sure are. I have been looking for it to do another set of wheels in that color. So far I'm coming up empty. I'll keep you in the loop.
I find this article fundamentally flawed in its ascertaining that the Challenge was the corrective platform for the 348 line and was intended to inspire sales in an otherwise challenging exotic car market. The fact is that the 348 Serie Speciale is that car. The Challenge is a race track refinement of that. Ferrari wanted to answer the call for a factory sponsored racing series, which Porsche was already doing successfully. Made sense. Everything in the Challenge is in the SS car plus allowances for racing equipment, namely the roll cage. The other stuff cited is part of the factory Challenge racing package that an owner could have fitted to any 348. The 348 Challenge is a rarer model than the SS, but there are many 348's that were fitted with the Challenge option. 32 factory Challenges, not all converted to track duty. Yet the field had up to 20 plus cars running and not always the same ones. In this country. Then there were all the Euro and Japanese cars. In track trim the car is awesome, but in street kit, it's about the same as a Spider or SS.
Yeah, that's right. I remember you telling me that. I also remember being skeptical about your then color choice for the wheels, but I was a convert when I saw the car again in person.
I tried for years to complete the kit but the brake ducting parts were unobtainium. There were a few other parts that were either stupid expensive for what they were or also unobtainium. A good example were the Challenge seat mounting brackets. I had the seats for a year before I found one set of OEM brackets, which I had someone use as a pattern to fabricate a second set. Still, it wasn't until I sold the car to sherpa23 before he installed the seats, part of the roll cage and put the finishing touches on the car.
Those brake ducts are really trick. I wish a vendor would copy an original set, both so the guys running them would have spares and so others could use them as well.
It's long overdue that the 348 is finally getting the good recognition it truly deserves. What a nice article, thanks for sharing.
^This right here is what makes the 348 Challenge a special car. ^ Only 32 factory prepped Challenge cars came from Ferrari. Yes you can make adjustments to the 348. Cut, move, and weld suspension points, add OMP seats, roll cage mounting points welded in, roll cage, wheels, etcetera, but it will NEVER have the distinction as a chassis number matching FACTORY built Challenge. Originality in stock form as in how it came off the assembly line with the VIN number to prove it. That is the big difference.
Schweet, Tim. Those ought to be in a vault somewhere, not just hanging up like a garden hose. Surely you know some fiberglass people who could make molds from those.
Been doing glass since I was 13, I'm 57 now. I prefer hand formed aluminum. I do have a pile of glass parts to make soon as I get my eye back working. couple more surgeries I'll be good to go Then I go nuts again. These Ferraris are just to keep me busy while I recover, like chip shots I'm F'n bored as they come ready to explode All alum viper anyone hehehhee Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
