Hi, new member here, so greetings to all and big congrats on the truly outstanding cars many of you own. I'm considering a 348 these days. I've been reading and watching many reviews and, regarding its handling and suspension geometry and set up, I've come across this thread: https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/1989-348-suspension-mods.108738/ Further to the useful information there, I would like to ask a few more things. I certainly could've used the original thread, but it's been inactive for many years and I thought I'd leave it alone and just reference it on a new thread. Regarding this: "[...]Later they further refined the geometry to better felt response by changing pick-up point locations in/on the rear subassemby." Is it possible to modify an early rear subassy to make it more like the late one? Is this something that a specialist may do at all? Next question: I've heard endless times that the F355 handles significantly better than the 348. Do you think this is still true for a late 348 with revised camber and toe-in settings? On the contrary, do these corrective measures take its handling close to that of the F355, which is much praised? I wonder if this not great handling reputation got set in stone as the 348 came out and was never revised since, not even when the rear subframe changed, not even when its successor the F355 came out. I also have a remark to make about this: "[...]The car was not faster and did not handle any better by the numbers but 'felt' better to most drivers." I don't race and I don't care at all about times or how fast the car is, but I most definitely seek handling that is good as in pleasant and forgiving. The sort of thing that cars like the Elan mk1 or MX-5 mk1 have always been praised for despite being slow. Enjoyable handling makes a big difference to me and it's very desirable in a sports car. Thank you very much in advance for any comments Cheers, Alex
348 rear sub frame was revised, the 355 and late 348 are the same in that regard. The change was 2 mm lowering of the upper pickup points on the sub frame, the lower ones bolt in. The challenge mounts that bolt in versions are available. I am unclear if the early challenge cars only had the challenge lower mounts or if they also has the upper mounts welded 2mm lower and that then rolled into production cars. Never found an answer to that. 355 is also better due to the ground effects under the car, it sucks down, 348 does not. Power steering, better seats, wheel offset (late 348 has changed wheel offset) more refined fit and finish, better carpet, ergonomics, perceives room due console not connected to dash, more power, exhaust note etc, all play into the experience. As far as modify its possible but its likely easier to just buy a late model subframe from a totaled car, they are always available. Also getting the chassis rake correct is key. Some like lowering the front of the car a tad more as helps with the nose lift but it makes steering more sensitive.
Wow, such a big amount of good quality information in one post, thanks!! 2 mm seems so little a difference to me. I didn't know it was a matter of so little a change in terms of dimensions. I guess that probably makes it a difficult rework mod to get exactly right (if it can be done at all, that is). Interesting re. sourcing a late subassy. I wonder how you could tell between the two and get the one you want. I realise the F355 is a significantly better car pretty much everywhere you look But I'm a huge fan of simplicity, hence my recent shift of interest towards the 348. I like old cars and I can live without any of these improvements... not plain poor handling, but clearly this is not inherent to the model. Also point taken re. chassis rake considerations. And of course all the considerations on the other thread like settings, quality of springs and dampers and so on. Thanks!
Based on the chassis number which is on a plate on the sub frame. One issue is batter mount is different you would have to add that in as early 348 had battery in the trunk, newer ones had battery in the front. May be other issues but that should work. Older models do spacers or 355/challenge wheels, new alignment specs and chassis rake and its fantastic. I think your attributing too much of an effect due to subframe changes alone. It does not "transform" the car from a meat cleaver to a scalpel.
That is a really useful post, thanks a lot. Understood re. how to tell between the rear subassemblies and also the battery location issue. As for your second paragraph, if others have found that the minor mods you mention do the trick, I'm sure they would also do for me because I'm no Ayrton Senna anyway. Also, I may be wrong but I think what you're saying implies that even the early 348s, with said minor mods, can achieve handling that's not miles away from that of the F355. I keep using the F355 as a reference because its handling being outstanding seems unquestionable. Thanks!!
I have a 95 Berlinetta with stock wheels and US factory ride height, and a 92 348 TS with Challenge wheels. Both cars have fresh Michelin Cup 2’s and fresh bushings. Haven’t tracked either but they both feel pretty much the same on backroads from a handling perspective. Pics! Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
If you "don't race and don't care at all about times or how fast the car is" then the finer points of the 348's handling will probably be a moot point to begin with. Frankly I am like you and for enthusiastic street driving (with the occasional redline bout) I can't tell the alleged lack of refined suspension geometry in my 1991 348tb. If I constantly drove this car at 8/10 or 9/10 of its capability then perhaps it would be a different story but at that point I'd be flirting with a pair of handcuffs generously offered by a police officer. Really, for people like us who primarily enjoy the sound, smell, vibrations of our 348, indeed a 30+ year-old car that shouldn't be pushed that hard to begin with, whether the rear end swings out at 80% or 90% of its handling limit is, in a word, irrelevant. There are loads of other lesser cars far better equipped for track duty than our 348s, most of which are more modern, a whole lot less expensive to fix/maintain and enormously more resilient to the beating imparted by a track session.
The 348 handles great. Get a Hagerty agreed value policy, some good tires, and you’ll be fine either way. Also agree re: simplicity. I so much prefer the old school… well, everything, of the 348. For example: Interior pieces with exposed screw heads make me so happy. It just makes things so much easier to service. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
The upper mounts are almost 20mm lower, I'm in the process of revising it as we speek. 355 has a wider rear track and it's 20mm lower.
They both look so beautiful. Congrats. Beautiful pictures, too, and useful comment. I don't think many people can compare the two as often as they please This is exactly what I thought would be the case, which is why I thought I'd describe the intended use and my driver profile. Also I wouldn't take the risk of an accident with such a special car, regardless of insurance. I feel there's a sense of responsibility involved. I totally could do with no dry sump system, really. Often you don't really need that even for mild-ish track day use. I used to do (non-mild-ish) track days in a crazy fast Ultima. It was perfect for that use. Each to their own. Ah!! That makes sense. 2 mm is nothing, literally less than one match stick. I'd think manufacturing process tolerances of the time may well be in the region of perhaps 0.5 mm anyway. I think they may be reworked but the idea does raise safety concerns. Well, this morning I was reading the wikipedia entry for the model: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari_348 When it came out, the press test drove it against the NSX, which handling has always been considered superb (therefore I'm happy to use it as a reference like I was using the F355 in my comments above). They concluded the 348 was significantly better: "Partly it is the steering; the NSX's is very good, the 348's exquisite. And partly it is the extra sharpness of the Ferrari's chassis, which is that crucial fraction more responsive to your inputs than not only the NSX but also any other supercar this side of £100,000 we can think of." Yes, I like it old, raw and simple. Many week days I commute in a '60s car with no comfort. It sits right next to a '90s car in my garage, so I pick whichever I fancy that day. So often it is the older one. Same re. exposed screws. I like to be reminded that these are still mechanical machines. Same as I enjoy looking at a race V12 with their beautiful array of air intakes, I like to see screws and stuff. In fact, I don't even like carpeting that much at all. Rivets are nice, too, think for example how the Alfa Romeo GTAm fenders contribute to the character of the car and its overall visual appeal. Then the F355 is always going to handle better if only for that reason. An easy enough change to implement if you wanted to, but I don't think it would be my case anyway. I'd rather keep it slightly more versatile.
I have an early '91 and late '94 Tracked both but did not experience differences in handling I am running 15mm spacers at the back
Wow, another lucky guy who can compare the two as often as you want. OK, so not even on the track! I mean, a track day is obviously not a race... but you certainly push it harder than on the road because in the end that's the whole point. Good to know, point taken, thanks
I love the way the black one has been made to look like a F355. Is that a one-off mod or a kit? I notice the door intakes, the rear headlight area and the rims. Is that it? It looks really nice. If you've covered this in a different thread, could you please point me to it?
Lucky enough to have a Berlinetta as well Biggest plus of the 355 is the extra power on a large track as Francorchamps Down side is the power steering
Yes, but 25mm spacers on early 348 tb or 348 spiders stock and 355 has essenty the same track. Actual hub flange to hub flange are all essentially the same if I recall. It's all wheel offfset. Sent from my SM-G990U using FerrariChat.com mobile app
Yes. 2cm. I toyed with the idea of moving my brackets at one time but thought better of it.. Ive seen a drawing of the mod somewhere.
Maybe some owners can chime in however I remember reading on the forum to match the 348 geometry to the 355 challenge geometry. Is this correct?
The lowering of the upper control arm shortens the radius of the instant center, promotes roll at the back end and makes the transition into oversteer more progressive. The added roll at the back end, also makes the front end relatively stiffer, promoting (off power) understeer. If you have driven lots of (moderately powerful) oversteering cars, the 348 handling is, basically, what you would expect; if not (98% of us) the original 348 oversteer is much more frightening (although some might say scintillating) ! ETA:: 348 suspension is very sensitive to ride height, now at 30 years old, all of them have suffered some sag and if not put right other handling ills accrue. The above was written as if the 348 was at proper ride height and on properly sized tires.
