348: Help needed please. Can't solve the Window issue

Here's what I would do. You say it blows the fuse (#23?) as soon as you drive around the block. I would disconnect the twist connector in both door jambs and carefully shut the doors, then do a test drive to see if it still blows the fuse. If it does, then the problem is NOT in the doors. If the fuse does NOT blow, then reconnect the connectors one at a time and repeat the experiment. The object is to narrow down your search.

Another experiment you may want to try. With the car in the garage, try raising and lowering the window while you are opening and closing the doors, and see if the fuse blows while you are doing this.

One thing to consider. Does your car have any add-on accessories that may have required drilling and installing mounting screws, particularly extra speakers in the doors? It's possible that a new screw is grounding out the circuit.

Usually the windows simply fail to operate due to a broken wire or a dirty pin connector, they don't usually blow the fuse. You have a direct ground somewhere.

 

If it makes you feel any better Henkie...

Just recently, my passenger window stopped working when using the passenger window switch.

THe passenger window DOES work, however, when I use the driver switch...

I wonder if I have the same problem?

 

You may have some binding in the window mechanism. You can get to it easily by removing the passenger door grate from the outside (4 hex screws) plus two screws. These cars use drive gears instead of the previous cable and pulley system. Get the gunk out of the track using penetrating lube and a toothbrush. If you replace the switches that may also solve it. The switches cost about $40 here. If you have broken wire strands inside the wire, you cannot tell. My mechanic replaced the 'snap on' plug set of wires for the driver's door with a continuous wire strand that goes from inside the door to inside the body without using the factory connector. good luck.
BT

 

Hi, Henkie;

Have you tried checking the wire bundle inside the boot at the DRIVERS door jamb? It sounds like you know how to do it. Here is a picture from one of my old posts showing the broken pin that was causing my problem with the windows. If you have a broken pin like this, it may be grounding out against one of the other pins and blowing the fuse.
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the PO on my 348 took the window motor wires and directly wired them, bypassing the pins and the trouble they can cause. From what I hear also, it helps with motor speed because its a better connection thus more current. If its a fuse busting, then it has to be grounding out somewhere...its probably just a game of tracing wires and finding the grounding point....Doesn't sound like fun at all.

 

I also completely bypassed the pin connectors in the drivers door jamb with solid wire, but until Henkie can identify his actual problem, I wouldn't recommend that as a "dead certain" fix. But I would unhook the twist connector in the drivers door jamb, pull back the rubber boot, and visually check for broken pins and/or hot spots. Don't just look at it, grab the individual wires and give them a wiggle. It might be OK, but you need to check at both doors.

 

I'm going to post a couple of other pictures here, just in case they may be of interest to 348 owners who may have problems in this area.

The first picture shows an example of a potential problem area in the twist connector. The wire is fraying, and the pin is not fully secured in the housing. If there is a voltage drop here, it will affect the performance of the power window. The solution is either to obtain and replace the faulty pin (male and female) or replace the pin with a solid wire section.

The second picture shows how I replaced the entire system of pins in my drivers door jamb with solid wires. I have a thread on this operation in the archives.
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Henkie, just as an aside to this, replacing blown fuses with larger ones is eventually going to cost you! It's never the fuse thats the problem, and if you "graduate" to a large enough one, you will be buying wiring harnesses instead! Can be very expensive.

 

It's certainly true that putting in higher amperage fuses is not a proper repair technique and can lead to far greater problems, but in this case my book indicates that fuses #2 and #23, which operate the power windows, are supposed to be 20amp fuses in the first place, not 15amp. Don't put in a fuse higher than 20amps.

 

Your problem could be in the wiring going to the windows control switches, in door. The wires, on the back of the plugs, attached to the control switches could be frayed, or loose. The other place you will want to look is the connection to the wondow motor. The wires run under the bottom of the window. It could be that somehow the wire is getting pinched while the window is going, up or down.

I feel your pain. Wiring problems are the WORST! It took me over 4 months to find the problem of a misfire once, and I found it by luck.

Basicly you are going to have to go trace all of the wires. You have to check everything, and it will end up being the last stupid thing you check.

 

My mechanic told me the wires bend at the door connection and, over time, strands of wire break internally. If you bend the wire back and forth a little bit you may feel very little resistance to bending. That would indicate that most of the strands are internally broken even though the wire may look completely normal from the outside. I had my mechanic do the twist on connector bypass for all the wires in the drivers door just to avoid future wiring problems. Good luck.
BT

 

Henkie,

IMO I would say that fault is almost certainly in the driver’s side door. Basically this door gets about 50% more use than the passenger door as you cannot drive the car from the passenger side. Therefore the wires flex more and the switches get a great deal more use. The fault sounds like a live wire is going to ground, probably due to worn insulation or a grommet missing. Try opening and closing the door in the dark, you may get lucky and see a flash as the wire 'shorts'.
For your information all the wiring runs back to the electric window control box which is located under that dash above the steering column. It may prove necessary to get your head under the dash and check the connections on this, although I think the problem is most likely in or around the door.
What you really need in these situations is a wiring diagram for the car so you can ‘follow’ the wires around the car. Unfortunately I do not have one, but I’m sure one of the guys on this site can help or try your local dealer/specialist.

Good Luck

Julian.

 

Thats great that you found it. I would directly wire it so that you dont have to worry about the pins every again.

 

By direct wire you mean, no pins and push the wire (twisted I presume) into the connector directly. How does it stay in? Solder?

Phil

 

I meant bypassing the pin and female connection and splicing the wire before and after the plug in thus eliminating the need for a 'pin (or male) and female connection..Jeff (Miltonian) has a pic above on Reply #10...Its the last pic...

 

But where and with what type of connector are the new wires terminated? Do they go all the way from switch to relay / fuse or is it a 2 foot splice with waterproof crimp connectors?
BT

 

On my car, the PO went from switch to fuse, i would think that a 2 foot piece using waterproof crimps at the wire splice would be more then sufficient. I guess it would be a matter of how much time you are willing to spend on it and how 'clean' of an install you would like. If it were me, I would splice the wire and use the waterproof crimps. I would wrap the splice points with electrical tape to help prevent any water getting in. I think whether you go from switch to fuse, or splice it in near the door jam on both sides, as long as you eliminate those pins will solve the problem.

 

Good job, Henkie! You got the problem diagnosed, now all you have to do is fix it.

There are several ways you could handle this, depending on how much time you have, and how much money you want to spend, and how much skill you have at this kind of thing. If you just want to fix it fairly quickly and easily, here's what I would do:

If I recall correctly, there are 23 holes in the plastic door jamb connector, and 19 wires going through there. That means that there are 4 blank holes. It's a pain to get the old pins out, and I don't think you can do it without destroying them. So use one of the other holes!

If you want to retain the pin arrangement, you need to get a new male and female pin that will fit into the plastic housing and lock in place. Then you would need to solder the wire ends onto the new pins. Not impossible, certainly, if you can find pins the right length and diameter.

On the other hand, you can just run one new length of wire through one of the unused holes in the connector, and crimp or solder it onto the existing wire on each side. I think there is only one 14gauge black wire in the bundle, so you can't go wrong. Ideally, you should use a section of 14 gauge wire for the splice, if the old wire is 14 gauge, and you would probably have to run a drill bit through the hole to enlarge it to fit 14 gauge wire (the wire with insulation is a greater diameter than the pin). You would have to slice open the covering around the wire bundle to expose the wires, but that's easy. Remember, you only have to cut one wire, if you're only bypassing one pin.

You can see some of details by looking at my old thread at:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46232&highlight=door+wiring

You may end up having to do more than one wire at some point in the future, but this would get you going for now.

Keep up the good work!

 

Good job - Always makes you feel good to fix it yourself.

F-Chat is great for that! Lots of great people here always willing to help.