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348 Race Versions

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by Samy, Dec 12, 2005.

  1. Samy

    Samy Formula Junior

    Dec 2, 2005
    603
    Hello,

    i saw on some internet sites that the racing versions , don't know wich racing league, of the 348 were put down to the reglemented minimum of 1050kg. How did they make that? Thats 300kg down. I only know some parts but they are far away from 300kg.

    Different rear and front bumper
    Magnesium Wheels
    Carbon Seat , no Passanger Seat
    Makrolon Side Windows
    Different Exhaust System
    No el. window lifters
    Smaller wiring harness only whats absolutly needed
    No reserve wheel
    No climatic control System
    Carbon Door Panels
    No Hifi
    No floor carpets
    Changed Headlights
    No Doorfins
    Smaller Batterie
    Interieur complete naked
    Non el. Mirrors
    No central locking
    No "airsystem" + heather (dont know the english word for that) ...


    But that couldn't be 300kg. And to that they add on some points extra weight like the cage, the fire extingusher, maybe heavier brakes.
    So how can i get it under 1100kg?
    _____________________
    Samy
     
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  3. DM18

    DM18 F1 Rookie

    Apr 29, 2005
    4,725
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    Such a good question. I have the changes that you noted and I am nowhere near the minimum weight. Weight reduction is the only answer as the power is too little
     
  4. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    20,343
    socal
    I'm not sure about the minimum weight but I was down to 2686lbs dry. I still had headlight buckets, stock bumpers, door bars, full wiring harness, all glass except door glass, all stock engine componants. I've made some major mods so I don't have a current weight but I hope it is less. I still have more to gut and that wiring harness is heavy. Those door strakes weigh near 20lbs!
     
  5. Samy

    Samy Formula Junior

    Dec 2, 2005
    603
    What glass did you put into the doors? Macrolon still with el. lifters? 2686lbs should be 1218kg ok 150kg left to find. Ok the doors would be much lighter and interieur but the rollcage puts the weight back on. I have 355 challange bumpers front and rear. Engine with less cylinders but with big turbo and cooling so not much less weight but double the hp. And i have still the glass windows. Arround 1250kg with the speedline 18" wheels. I want to go down to minimum of 1150kg better 1050kg. How much lighter are the macrolon windows to the standard ones? Are the rear small windows heavy?

    I've found out some more parts wich were changed

    Front and Rear Bumper kevlar / carbon
    Doors Kevlar / Carbon
    Door trims interieur carbon
    Kevlar Seat
    On 24h Le Mans version no headlight buckets
    No door fins
    No climatic control
    No el. windows
    Lighter exhaust
    Ligther airfilter
    Ligther engine (inlet manifold, ...)
    No useless interieur parts
    TB of corse no Targa or Spider
    steering wheel
    drilled pedals
    Kevlar sill panels
    Lexan rear window
    lightweight alloy panels for the front lid and engine cover


    Added weight :
    a roll cage
    fire extinguisher
    all-round brake ducting
    plastic parking light covers
    Front and rear tow hooks
    solid suspension bushings
    rear camber forks

    PS: What you mean with door strakes? Don't know the meaning of "strakes".
    ______________
    Samy
     
  6. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Aug 10, 2002
    20,343
    socal
    Actually my quote was with challenge cage, plumbed fire system, brake ducts, tow hooks. 300lbs more would be hard to do without cutting out some metal. Don't foregt the car needs 1 gal gearbox oil 11 qt oil gas and driver add back in huge weight...

    You got a turbo system? Tell me about it. Can you post pics? What are you using for engine management? Did you set engine management up on dyno or seat of the pants?
     
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  8. No Doubt

    No Doubt Six Time F1 World Champ
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    May 21, 2005
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    348 Competiziones use F-40 half shafts to save more weight over the regular 348 half-shafts. Light weight wheels and tires, too. Also use a lexan rear window and carbon fiber brake ducts and under panels.

    I'd guess that some of the models deleted the entire ABS pump and ECU system, too.

    Remove the parking brake. Shave the bolts. Pull out all of the road-legal light bulbs/connections/wiring. Sand down the floor. No cats. Lighter weight exhaust with less heat shielding. Different airbox/airfilter. No windshield wipers/fluid/plumbing.

    No door handles (cables only). Remove the metal covers of the ECU boxes. Remove the front trunk liner (top and bottom). Remove or drill the two "middle" jack points. Remove the passenger footrest. Sand/shave the front firewall. Remove the adjustable seat tracks. Remove the hidden antennae. Remove the interior vents. Remove the mouse motors and tracks and extra seat belt clip points.

    Remove one or more cooling fans. Replace the water thermostat with a permanent block (such that a portion of the radiator/water pump plumbing has less capacity). Cut the clutch/brake reservoir in half. Cut the paint thickness in half. Remove the anti-corrosion underspray. Remove the tire wells at each corner fender. Replace all of the guages with a single computer screen. Remove O2 sensors and wiring.

    Remove starter motor (jack up and turn the rear wheels in gear to start). Remove starter gearbox ring. Remove reverse gear. Remove gearbox filter.
     
  9. Samy

    Samy Formula Junior

    Dec 2, 2005
    603
    Ok with the cage and other stuff the 1286kg are good. Then i can go under 1200kg without it. I'm installing an different engine not an turbosystem to the 348 engine. The ecu is an small bosch m1.5.5 .. size of an cigarette box. The engine management is setup on our engine and chassis dyno. If its all complete i can post a picture.




    Ok the most parts are not good on a street driven car. And the F40 Half Shafts should be very hard to find? I will try all possible changes and hope it goes under 1100-1150kg.
     
  10. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 19, 2001
    22,063
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    The Bad Guy
    #8 ernie, Dec 18, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Those would be the three air guides that are in the radiator opening, in the door. The things that give the 348 the look of a Testarossa. The 355 does not have the "strakes" in the door. The 348LM version of the car does not have the strakes.

    The picture below is of a 348 without the "strakes"
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  11. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Nov 19, 2001
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    Also in the picture above you will see that the car has fixed headlights, and no fog lights. The headlight lift motors are heavy, as is the headlight housing.

    Other things that can be done to reduce weight is to use carbon fiber. The front and rear bumper can be made of CF.

    The door inserts (minus the strakes) can be made of carbon fiber. The front trunk lid can also be made of cf, as can the engine cover.

    The bottom rocker pannels can be made out of cf, and get rid of the metal kick plates covering the rockers.

    To get rid of more weight, swap out the front windshield for Lexan. You can save more weight by removing all of the air conditioning plumming, and compressor.

    Change out the radiators for lighter weight aluminium radiators.

    Use a smaller battery.

    Change out the gas tank for a smaller lighter fuel cell. Remove the side mirrors for smaller light weight cf mirrors.

    Remove the heat shield around the exhaust headers, and have them ceramic coated to help with the head, or put heat wrap around them.

    Use a challege style exhaust. Basicly a straight pipe. Especially if you have the dual can exhaust. You will save at least 60lbs doing this.
     
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  13. iceburns288

    iceburns288 Formula 3

    Jun 19, 2004
    2,112
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    Charles M.
    It'd be a lot easier to get those parts made out of fibreglass, I would think. If you were using it for a track I'm sure you wouldn't want to replace those...ever... so darned expensive! :p
     
  14. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2003
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    Dr. Dumb Ass
    A Dremel tool is your friend for weight reduction...
     
  15. Llenroc

    Llenroc F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed Consultant

    Jun 9, 2004
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    Vern
    The F-40/288GTO half shafts(same part nos.) will not fit on a 348. If you look at the parts books on these cars or the shop manuals and compare diagrams they are not even close to being the same style let alone having same part nos. The 348/355 shafts have a splined end that fits into the upright, the F-40/288/328/308 has a six bolt attachment and are not the same length. There would need to be a major rework of the rear suspension to get them to fit. They would not be a simple bolt in. I have seen both shafts and never noticed any difference in weight to warrant such a change. "No Doubt" you need to do better research before you start giving advice on something you don't no anything about.
     
  16. No Doubt

    No Doubt Six Time F1 World Champ
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    You are mistaken, Vern. Here's the Ferrari Club's 348 fact sheet (exerpt):
    "1993 348 GT Competizione and 1994 348 GT/C-LM (track cars)
    Although it carried the same decklid badging as the later street car above, this car was produced strictly for the track. Eleven GT/C's were built, with one winning the Group 2 title in the 1993 Italian Supercar GT series. Additionally, two GT/C-LM's were developed for the 1994 Le Mans race.

    The cars, developed by Michelotto, had carbon fiber bumpers and doors, thin aluminum hood and decklid with carbon fiber stiffeners, a Lexan rear window, gray cloth OMP racing seats, and an FIA-legal roll cage. They tweaked the mostly-stock engine, including a fuel mapping change, to put out 360 bhp. The car also had F40 halfshafts and 15 inch Brembo cross-drilled brakes stopping 18 inch wheels all around, eight inches wide at the front and ten at the rear."

    http://www.ferrariclub.com/faq/348versions.html
     
  17. MDshore348

    MDshore348 Formula 3

    Dec 24, 2004
    2,427
    Maryland
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    Darron
    geez everyones the expert....! lol chill out guys !
     
  18. No Doubt

    No Doubt Six Time F1 World Champ
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    May 21, 2005
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    Mr. Sideways
    In the spirit of chillin', I'm workin' on a new drink. One piece of peppermint candy, ice, one part vanilla rum, two parts Coke.


    Mmm...
     
  19. Llenroc

    Llenroc F1 Rookie
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    Jun 9, 2004
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    Vern
    You weren't advising the forum on Michelotto 348 comp cars the discussion was on 348 road/challenge cars. The 348 Comp. cars built by Michelotto(which are different from the Euro only "comp. road cars") had completely different suspension system than the 348 road cars, challenge cars or the Euro 348 road comp cars. As I said before you can not just bolt in the half shafts from the F-40/288. To use the non spline half shafts (308 thru F-40) it would take a major change to the rear susp. I don't see in your quote of info about lightness. Again the F-40/288 shafts were not lighter, possibly a stronger design if anything (spline vs. 6 bolt attachment to the upright). Some of the 355C cars had trouble with the spline design showing some weakness but not to the point of reworking the suspension. I cannot see any reason to advise someone to go to the trouble of changing to them.
     
  20. No Doubt

    No Doubt Six Time F1 World Champ
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    Please...just go read the first two words of post #6.
     
  21. Samy

    Samy Formula Junior

    Dec 2, 2005
    603
    Ok thanks for the infos so i try the standard ones and hope they last long on the high torque output. Who make an lexan windshield? And is it durabel? Normaly macrolon windows gets scratches very easy even only as movable sidewindows. The mirrors and headlights must stay i dont want an light but ugly car. But i make then manual to get them lighter. Bumpers are already 355 challange. Doorscoops are carbon ones without the strakes also already. Rear hood frondpart is carbon. Rearlights are 355 wich also reduce the weight over the bigger 348 rearlights. The suspension parts are not changed on the challange or racing cars to get them lighter with magnesium or other material? Exhaust will be lighter but not an straight pipe because it should run on the streets, autobahn more then on a track. Batterie is already very small. No a/c parts are left. Exhaust and Turbocharger are isolatet by heattape. The radiators in alu would be better for weight but i think i must go on heavier copper ones because of the much more heat the engine will put into the water/oil and also i need to install an additional cooler for the watercooled intercooler.
    Is the targa top heavier then the normal top? How much weight difference is between the two versions?

    Ok thanks for the informations i will try to make all changes wich are possible on the street and without making the car look ugly (f.e. with tiny mirros or the normal headlights).
     
  22. No Doubt

    No Doubt Six Time F1 World Champ
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    Mr. Sideways

    RicambiAmerica.com carries a carbon fiber 348 targa roof that saves substantial weight.
     
  23. Llenroc

    Llenroc F1 Rookie
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    The original question was related to/based on current 348s used as tract cars,ie; challenge cars, road cars that are used on the track etc. Example FBB's 348, not the 11 race cars preparred in '93 by Michelotto. Your comments where related to the current 348's. You are avoiding your comments on advising that the f-40/288 halfshafts: 1)can be used on any 348 and 2) that they are lighter. Neither one is correct. Sorry, just trying to clear up your misinformation.
     
  24. No Doubt

    No Doubt Six Time F1 World Champ
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    Mr. Sideways

    Come on Vern, play nice. The title of this thread is "348 Race Versions."

    I *clearly* qualified my comments by saying 348 Competizione in the first two words of post #6, so it's bad form to say that I'm spreading misinformation.

    I even provided a link to the Ferrari Club 348 versions page showing that yes, 348 Competiziones had the F-40 half-shafts.

    You said something entirely different, and you haven't provided any such links...but you have been taking pot shots at me even though I'm right *and* provided source documentation.

    Everyone makes mistakes. You made an easy one on an esoteric subject...no big deal. Just give it up and move forward in life. You've always tried to give people good advice, and I suspect that you will continue to do so...so surely my fair minded advice above should mean something.
     
  25. Ricambi America

    Ricambi America F1 World Champ
    Sponsor Owner

    Not for sale at this point. Local Fchatter resnow got one and I kept the other. These my friend, are the spoils of war, that I simply pulled from the website.

    OEM roof = 25 pounds; CF roof = 9 pounds.
     
  26. No Doubt

    No Doubt Six Time F1 World Champ
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    Sweet.
     
  27. Llenroc

    Llenroc F1 Rookie
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    I didn't say that the michelotto cars didn't use the F-40 half shafts. I said they were not used for lighter weight purposes and they are not going to fit on any 348. The way I understood your responce was they could be easily be used on any 348 as a method to reduce weight, they can not. As I said earlier I have seen both half shaft versions and I could not see difference in weight. Is that playin' nice enough for ya? LOL
     
  28. mdraeger

    mdraeger Karting

    May 26, 2005
    138
    hong kong
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    mike draeger
    My factory parts manual shows the axle shaft assembly P/N 116016 to to have bolt up CVs on both ends (drawing TAV.29) This explains my drunken post in the 348 Tech forum a few weeks ago. SORRY. My car has 6 bolts at the dif end and splined shaft at the hub end. Further in the manual it implies that cars up to NO. 1523 had the bolts both ends type and from car NO. 1524 the bolt / spline version. (TAV.39) The repair manual also shows the shaft as a bolt up both ends affair. Hope this helps, cheers, Mike D
     

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