348 starter motor when hot

Riki -

There have been some threads about this in the past, and I'll try to search them out. I think Ernie and/or Miltonian have installed secondary switches in their ashtray to solve this exact problem -- using a heavy gauge wire and switch. 348 brothers... can you help?

-Daniel

 

One of my old posts on this subject:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4390&highlight:starter+switch+ashtry

It's fairly easy to make some tests to see if the problem is in the battery, or the cables, or the starter, or the switch, and to take the appropriate action once the culprit is identified. In my case, I never did actually pinpoint the problem, but I assume it's bad contacts inside the sealed ignition switch. So I bypassed the problem, and I haven't had any starting issues since then. If you're particular about having everything original and correct, this isn't the way to go. But it works.

Edit: I should mention that the last time I gave someone advice on this subject, the problem turned out to be something else entirely (his alarm system).

 

Nope wasn't me that put the extra switch in.

But try having a look at the ground the the starter. Most of the time with these cars it is a wiring problem. Also do you have the old style bullet connector? If you do that could be part of the problem. If they are making poor contact the starter motor doesn't wanna work.

 

Having similar problem - there is a recall for this - will post next week after mine is fixed by Boston Sports Car.

AM

 

This is really an electrical wiring problem that has a crappy Ferrari cure. They put in a ford solinoid to bypass the one in the startermotor. Nothing to it at all and can be done yourself for about 10 bucks. You can go to any autoparts and get a ford external solinoid and wire it. Alternatively you can clean and refresh your Ferrari wiring and it cures the problem 100% of the time sticking to OEM parts. Ferrari is too lazy to do this thus the exteranl solinoid. Alternatively you can hotwire your Ferrari solinoid with just two extra wires in a pinch those two times a year that it happens. Heat causes increased resistance to current flow and the starter fails

 

Michael at Ferrari Service here in SoCal did an auxiliary relay on my car and cured it on my spider. I believe it is a fairly common problem on the 348 and Mondial - he knew exactly what to do as soon as I mentioned it. Relatively cheap fix IIRC.

Cheers
Kevin

 

Andy (post #6): I'd be very surprised if there is a recall for this problem. Did you get a recall notification? There might be a technical service letter, but a recall??? Please keep us updated on this.

 

Work with me here because I'm just brainstorming (because this problem hasn't hit me *yet*), but think about these two things that you said:

1. Heat causes the problem, and
2. wiring an external solenoid via the existing wiring will fix it (at least, one way).

So why wouldn't just a tiny extra bit of insulation around the existing Ferrari solenoid (OK, the whole starter motor) solve and/or prevent this problem?

Perhaps the tail end of the wiring to the starter may need extra insulation, too...

 

I'd hate to say that BillyBob is wrong, because he knows a lot more than I do, but I don't think I agree with what he says.

The Ford solenoid couldn't replace the solenoid on the 348 starter motor. The 348 starter couldn't work without its solenoid. On a 348, there is a direct cable connection from the battery to the starter. Sure, the cable connections have to be clean and tight, but unless there is something REALLY obvious wrong, there is full battery voltage at the starter ALL THE TIME. Whether the key is on or not. On the Ford, there is only power at the starter when the external solenoid is engaged by turning the key. The Ford starter doesn't have an attached solenoid. It only has one cable terminal.

On the Ferrari, the problem isn't that the starter MOTOR isn't getting full voltage, the problem is that the SOLENOID isn't getting full voltage. On the Ford, the solenoid is there to take 12 volts from the battery (heavy cable gauge) and send it to the starter to make it turn over. On the Ferrari, you already have 12 volts at the starter, but when you have the "click" symptom, you don't have 12 volts at the solenoid.

So the Ford solenoid takes a 12 volt signal from the battery (the cable gauge doesn't have to be any more than the original solenoid wire, NOT like a battery cable), and sends that voltage to the SOLENOID on the starter when the key is turned. The Ford solenoid doesn't need the full 12 volts to close the contacts. The only function of the Ford solenoid is to close a pair of contacts. It does not have to operate a bendix mechanism.

Make sense? Correct me if I'm wrong, and I'll eat dirt.

 

Jeff,

Don't eat dirt but I am correct. This is a known 348 issue. Ford solioids work if you want to start your car via the key and bypass the 348 system. This is a cheap down dirty work around all mechanics know becuase sometimes it is hard to find the acutal source of the electrical flow constriction. If not you can avoid the key altogether by just hotwiring from the 348 solinoid in a pinch hot ot not and get 100% juice to the unit. Been there done that to my car in the past and to others. Best fix is to properly rewire OEM. Heat kills but the real cause is crappy cable connectiosn that need to be cut and replaced. 12volts is fine but bad connection zap your current handling capacity and increased heat increases electrical resistance too and you get no juice to turn over. Insulation is not an issue because the starter is connected to the clutch bellhouse and get heatsoakded via conduction not convection.

 

OK, that makes sense. Thanks.

 

I acknowledge that I do not know the technical term (recall vs tech bulletin) I will get a copy of the one BSC has and post next week.