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348 Starter Relay Modification

Discussion in '348/355' started by Miltonian, Jun 24, 2008.

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  1. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2002
    5,960
    Milton, Wash.
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    Jeff B.
    #1 Miltonian, Jun 24, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Over the years I have fielded questions from several 348 owners whose starters have failed to engage when the key is turned. When my own 348 exhibited this problem a few years ago, I installed a back-up pushbutton to engage the starter, but I always intended to do a "proper" fix some day. Here is what I did this afternoon.

    I purchased a Bosch relay, 30amps, normally open, with a built-in mounting tab. It was about $15 at an auto electric supply store. This particular relay is a Bosch 0332 019 155. The purpose of the relay is to take the weak voltage from the ignition switch and use it to close the relay contacts, sending full battery voltage to the starter solenoid. Using four terminals on the relay, you connect as follows:
    Terminal 30 - Battery positive voltage supply
    Terminal 85 - Power from the ignition switch starting position
    Terminal 86 - Ground
    Terminal 87 - Power out to starter solenoid
    The terminals are marked and diagrammed on the relay housing.

    There is a perfect location for this, behind the interior fuse panel! If you look at the first picture, you can see the arrangement. Full battery voltage is right there at the "buss bar" in the upper left. There is a "common ground" recepticle at the lower right. And the wire from the ignition switch is on the back of the fuse panel. Access isn't easy in the tight space, but it can be managed.

    First, I had to identify the wire from the ignition switch, with help from the wiring diagram. In my case, it was the white wire, 4th from the left, in terminal block D (black). This can be verified using a voltmeter or a test light. This wire SHOULD be carrying full battery voltage when the key is turned to the start position, but my voltmeter showed less than 10 volts here - no wonder the starter wouldn't turn on the key! I snipped this wire and ran it to terminal 85 on the new relay. Bypassing the fuse panel, I snipped the white wire directly behind the first wire, in terminal block A (yellow), 4th from the left, and connected it to terminal 87 on the new relay. This circuit runs straight through the fuse panel without a connection to any fuse or relay, according to the diagram. It was fairly easy to make and hook up new wires from the buss bar (either side) to relay terminal 30, and from the common ground to relay terminal 86.

    Once the wires were all hooked up and tested, I attached the relay to the side of the buss bar housing using one of the available mounting studs and its nut - no holes drilled! This modification is completely out of sight, in a dry, protected area, and has no effect on any of the other electrical circuits in the car - and it's entirely reversable. So far it's working great!

    Of course, before doing a mod like this, you need to verify that your battery is OK, that the cables and connectors are clean and tight. Installing a relay will not help if your starter itself is worn out. But if you have the typical problem with a voltage drop through the ignition switch, this will help at least temporarily unless the switch burns out entirely.

    I accomplished this job in about 90 minutes on my first attempt, and I imagine I could pare it down to less than an hour.

    I wouldn't recommend a job like this to anyone who is not comfortable working with the wiring on his car - it's not difficult, but it's not "Wiring 101" either.
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  2. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #2 ernie, Jun 24, 2008
    Sweet write up Jeff.
     
  3. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Moderator
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    #3 PAP 348, Jun 25, 2008
    Cool Jeff! Thanks for sharing mate. :):)
     
  4. FandLcars

    FandLcars F1 Rookie

    Aug 6, 2006
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    Rick Schumm
    #4 FandLcars, Jun 25, 2008
    Looks like a great mod Jeff! Seems like the problem starts with degradation of the ignition switch. As I understand the mod, seems that even a very weak ignition switch would still work well enough to allow the relay to pick up, but I wonder if a really bad switch would still pick the relay up? I'm just trying to figure out if an ignition bypass button may be even more failsafe. Good idea!
     
  5. dasadrew

    dasadrew Formula Junior

    Aug 1, 2004
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    Drew H.
    #5 dasadrew, Jun 26, 2008
    Good mod, and great to have a full description and pics! I love using relays too - they can also help to isolate circuits if you get noise, like HiFi interference.

    Can I add some humble notes?

    On the starter circuit, I did a similar arrangement to put an immobilizer device in line. Using the battery bus, beware that they carry full batttery voltage and amps at all times. It is VERY important to ensure the wires connected to this are absolutely insulated. If they should contact an earth at any time, it fries the electrics and, as said, there is no fuse to stop them! On the pic, I guess you have removed the plastic cover on the bus connection box. At least, there should be one there (or at least on my 348 there is!)

    The modification won't help a bad starter motor as that draws its current elsewhere. It does, of course, give the starter solenoid more "ooommphh" to allow the starter contacts to better carry the current.

    I've not found a specific "voltage drop" problem on the switch myself. However, an older switch does get wobbly and causes the contacts to be intermittent. If the switch is really past its days, then the relay won't cure that. I found that some of the problems on the switch seems to be when the harness has been disturbed and is not correctly supported on the column anymore. It weighs on the electrical part of the switch and seems to stress it. A couple of ty-wraps in that area hold everything better in place and alleviate the wobbly contact syndrome.

    Happy reliable starting!
     

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  6. fxdwgs

    fxdwgs Formula 3

    Aug 22, 2006
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    #6 fxdwgs, Jun 26, 2008
    Is this the one behind the passenger footrest or is there another one?

    //B//
     
  7. dasadrew

    dasadrew Formula Junior

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    #7 dasadrew, Jun 26, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Yes Bengt.

    It's amazing how much space there is there! :D
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  8. brm

    brm Karting

    Apr 26, 2002
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    #8 brm, Jun 26, 2008
    For the anyone who is not comfortable working with the wiring on his car, the Bosch WR1 kit from your local Bosch supplier or Rock Auto installs at the starter. It is prewired with the correct connectors and a fuse. It comes with instructions and is a simple install. It solved the problem on my 348.
     
  9. mikef348

    mikef348 Rookie

    Jan 24, 2013
    5
    Swansea UK
    #9 mikef348, Jan 27, 2013
    Many thanks for posting this up Sir,
    I am in my 2nd year of owning my 348, Since buying it I have not had any problems with it.
    Recently it wouldn't start, as the car had an alarm and immobiliser, I presumed that this was the issue as I had all dash lights but no crank! I contacted the guy who installed the alarm some 2 years before I purchased the car and he advised that it was doubtful the the alarm was the issue and sent me this link.

    I purchased a Lucas SRB537 relay as advised by Ben Cartwright and wired it in as per the instruction in the thread.

    Result: Immediate Crank and Fire up.

    Many thanks for sharing this quick fix.

    Best ragards
    Mike UK
     

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  10. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2002
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    #10 Miltonian, Jan 27, 2013
    Welcome to Ferrari Chat, Mike.

    Glad you got your 348 to start again using my old thread. How time flies....5 years ago!
     
  11. redzone

    redzone Formula 3
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    #11 redzone, Jan 27, 2013
    Mine Too. Havent had a problem since installing it.
     
  12. mikef348

    mikef348 Rookie

    Jan 24, 2013
    5
    Swansea UK
    #12 mikef348, Jan 28, 2013
    Thanks for the welcome, I did join when I bought the car, perhaps before, but obviously didn't post just did a lot of reading.

    Many thanks again

    Mike
     
  13. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Moderator
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    #13 PAP 348, Jan 28, 2013
    Time flies when you're having fun! :)

    Welcome to the forum Mike. :)
     
  14. trevsked

    trevsked Karting

    Jun 20, 2007
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    #14 trevsked, Mar 21, 2013
    I'm in the process of fitting a relay in my RHD car and have removed the fuse/relay board from the passenger footwell. Of course one the previous owners has been there before me and installed a radio and amps with all the associated wiring which I am removing first. As this was installed behind the fuse panel it meant the fuse panel wasn't fitted back properly and I can't see how it should sit originally. Anybody got any pics or links to pics would be helpful.

    Trevor.
     
  15. 348Jeff

    348Jeff Formula 3
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    #15 348Jeff, Aug 1, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here you go Trevor - this my RH drive car and as you can see confusingly the circuit board is mounted in a mirror image as per shown in the Ferrari/USA manuals etc. but to double check it should match the layout as printed on the reverse side of the panel covering the panel.

    BTW Just ordered a WR-1 kit from RockAuto so will take some pics when I install it
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  16. 348Jeff

    348Jeff Formula 3
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    #16 348Jeff, Aug 11, 2013
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  17. 348Jeff

    348Jeff Formula 3
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    #17 348Jeff, Sep 4, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Decided to look at fitting the hard start kit today but a bit confused already! LOL

    Instructions say:

    Remove blue arrowed wire in my pic and attach to blue wire from relay and replace it with the black wire from the relay???


    Disconnect the red arrowed thicker connector from the starter and attach the red wire from the relay and put the connector back on top of it???


    Attach the yellow wire from the relay to a ground such as the ground cable arrowed in yellow - or somewhere on the engine cradle.


    Does that sound about right? Paranoid about setting my car on fire! LOL
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  18. 348Jeff

    348Jeff Formula 3
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    #18 348Jeff, Sep 6, 2013
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  19. 348Jeff

    348Jeff Formula 3
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    #19 348Jeff, Sep 6, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  20. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #20 ernie, Sep 6, 2013
    WHOA! That's not good.

    Thanks for the update pics by the way.
     
  21. 348Jeff

    348Jeff Formula 3
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    #21 348Jeff, Sep 6, 2013
    I think its a combination of the boot being old/damaged plus a bit of corrosion in the joint so its finding an easier path. Not sure whether thats a contributing factor or not but its not good and thankfully not the case any longer.
     
  22. ga68

    ga68 Karting

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    #22 ga68, Apr 4, 2017
    Hello,
    Can you tell me the difference between relay 0332 019 155 from the beginning of the subject and the kit 0332 019 150?
    A reference error 0332 019 155?
     
  23. ///Mike

    ///Mike F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2003
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    #23 ///Mike, Apr 4, 2017
    FWIW, I found a higher amp relay and water resistant socket that I think are a good bit better than the Bosch kit. Don't recall the source but can find it if you're interested.
     
  24. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    #24 taz355, Apr 4, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  25. ///Mike

    ///Mike F1 Veteran

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    #25 ///Mike, Apr 5, 2017
    The ones I found on Amazon had 12 gauge switched wires so I got this one from CE Auto Electric because it has 10 gauge main wires: https://ceautoelectricsupply.com/product/4-wire-waterproof-relay-socket/

    Coupled it with this 40 amp relay (most are 30 amp and Miroljub has said that the 348 solenoid draws around 40 amps during pull-in): https://ceautoelectricsupply.com/product/hella-4020-amp-waterproof-relay/

    The folks at CE are super nice (at least via email) and shipped immediately. Highly recommended.
     
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