Startup problem After 4 weeks of freezing in an unheated garage the 348 will not start No lights on in the console when I turn the key (only ABS one) Checked all fuses and they are OK Starter motor runs but engine does not fire up Any ideas will check the connectors going to the console
So it's either a fuel or ignition problem. If you had one of these it could show that voltage is going to the sparkplugs, without having to pull a wire. . Image Unavailable, Please Login
Do the headlights work? Horn? With no lights other than the ABS warning showing in the instrument panel I'm wondering if one or both of the fuse blocks have lost power. Is there any chance that your car has been fitted with a battery disconnect that only affects the fuse blocks? Not sure where the key switch gets its power so the following may not be applicable, but I think I'd check for power at each fuse block, either with a meter or by checking to see if various fused items still function. If neither fuse block has power I'd be looking for a hidden switch/relay or a fault in the power conduit from the battery to the fuse blocks. If only the footwell fuse block has lost power it could be as simple as a ground problem. Any chance your car has been playing home to rodents that might have gnawed through some wiring? Sure hoping that's not the case, but sounds like it might be a possibility. Good luck and please let us know what you find.
Interesting. It sounds like your steering column ignition switch is not putting out volts when the key is in the second detent.. i.e. Off, accessory, FAIL, start. The ABS system is powered by the accessory contact (which might explain why you get the ABS light only). When you turn the key, does it feel normal? I'm wondering how your alarm system (if you have one), is wired up. Is it easy to pull the shroud off the control control column on a 348 and check the wiring around the ignition switch? Here's a wiring diagram of the ignition switch. There may be additional wires not shown. http://www.members.iinet.net.au/[email protected]/Ferrari348/F438Ignition.gif Hope this helps Cheers Ian
P.S. Strangely, according to the F348 Motronic 2.7 wiring diagrams in the workshop manual, the two blue wires on the ignition switch are re-united in the passenger footwell relay/fuse panel. I don't understand why 1.5 amp and 2.5 amp wires would be wired like this. If it was for redundancy, I thought they might have the same amperage. http://www.members.iinet.net.au/[email protected]/Ferrari348/F348Ignition.gif If your lights (not including hazards) and your engine won't fire up, I'd say that both blue wires would have to be chewed by Mike's rodents (or the ignition switch would have to be faulty). It would probably be a good idea to check the volts on the blue wire connections with the ignition switch on (battery connected). i.e. the voltage between the blue wire contacts and earth. Cheers (EDIT: Matching wiring diagrams with the real car is another issue.... Seems the 10 wires in the diagrams become 5 or 6 wires on the steering column connectors on the car... http://www.members.iinet.net.au/[email protected]/Ferrari348/348IgnitionSwitchPhoto.jpg
Thanks Ian I am starting to think you are right about the switch I tried to start again after loading the battery But the problem persists I tried wiggling the key but nothing changed Will disassemble the switch next weekend Hope its not due to rodents
Before you start pulling the switch itself apart... If you can find the larger electrical plug (4 pin?), disconnect it and (on the steering column side) check for continuity with an ohmmeter between the electrical pins (or rather, sockets) corresponding to the red and blue wires with the key in the normal engine running position. I don't know if this a common problem, but it will help in isolating the problem. Note: There will be other plugs for the lights/wipers, so I don't know how difficult the plugs will be identify. Anyway, I wish you luck (and a cheap fix) Cheers Ian.
Indeed, it's good advice to check the basics, Howie, but he doesn't even have dashboard lights. It's almost certainly an electrical problem. Frank, I'd be curious to know if that 4 pin plug (the car side, not the column side) has one or two blue wires. If the plug has only one blue wire and no splices between it and the passenger footwell relay/fuse panel, it might make further faultfinding a little easier (if you discover the lock is actually ok). If there is only one blue wire, then it could just be that one of the plugs on the back of passenger footwell relay/fuse panel has come adrift (or has a bit of corrosion on it). How easy it is to remove that panel and check, I'm not sure, but if it is something like that, the "fix" might turn out to be a really cheap one Cheers Ian
Another thought, too, Frank... Possibly more temperature related... Your battery bus bar could have been affected by moisture and cold temperatures. I don't know how accessible it is on the F348, but if you look at the diagram below, you can see a 16amp wire going to the passenger footwell relay/fuse panel. This would affect lights and engine stuff, but allow starter motor operation (if some of the lugs have good contacts). A quickly clean and tighten could see everything fire up. http://www.members.iinet.net.au/[email protected]/Ferrari348/Frank1.gif Cheers Ian
Ian, I managed to take some photos One: of the plug coming from the switch You see the side going to the fuseboard on top Red continues as red White as white Blue 2x as 1x blu and 2x a small yellow/black Black and brown are for the light, I never noticed before there was one Difficult to see where they go in the switch board Two: of the backside of the passenger footwell fuse board Looks very accessable but not so for the eye I will have to locate the bush bar There is no sign of rodent damage I did not measure voltages yet Unfortunately there is an alarm system involved but this never caused problems it is not functional so I might remove it Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Excellent shots, Frank. Most helpful... Thanks. Since there is only one blue wire on the car side of the steering column plug (in your photos), it would be good to know which plug it goes to on the passenger footwell relay/fuse panel. It will be either to plug E (green one which your finger is touching), or to plug G (yellow plug, just behind the green one on the right hand side). I can see some(?) blue wires going to the green plug. Are there any blue wires going to the yellow plug? Unfortunately, those G and E plugs look quite secure and clean in the photo. Check the pins anyway and that the wires are all attached. Also on that panel, there should be a connection/plug with a single red wire coming from the battery bus bar). i.e. no other wires on the plug. Check that, i.e. if you can find it. I also noticed a fuse in some photographs on the side of the panel. I'm not sure what this is for. It wouldn't hurt to check that (if your car has one). It may have battery volts (?) Anyway, I hope you're having as much fun as I am with this investigation process Cheers Ian.
Update: I think I understand why there is only one blue wire coming from the ignition lock electrical plug. Blue wire power has to go to two plugs on the passenger footwell panel (green and yellow). Instead of wasting wire and putting in two blue wires from the column to the footwell, Ferrari just wired in one blue (2.5 amp wire) to the green plug, and then put a short 1.5 blue jumper wire to the yellow plug. Anyway, if you get the chance, check the voltage on the blue wire on the green plug (6th pin from left) with the ignition key in the normal running position. If that's around 12volts, that will prove your ignition key is ok. You can double check the circuit by checking for volts on the yellow plug blue or blue/red wire (pin 6). Then we can move on to the battery circuit (including the bus bar). I've made a few changes to the diagram: http://www.members.iinet.net.au/[email protected]/Ferrari348/Frank1.gif (You may have to refresh your browser to view the changes) Cheers Ian.
Hello Ian, I disconnected the plug at the key switch and found it is OK I have 12V on the red wire of the connector, so the bus bar must be OK too Also 12V on 15a and 15b There is no blue wire going from plug G to E I have tried to measure the voltage at the fuse board but could not get a reading May have to disconnect the plugs Will try again tomorrow Thanks for your help Frank
Hi, Frank... There was never any doubt that you had 12V there because your ABS light and Starter Motor were working. Not necessarily. Looking at the diagram, there are various wire lugs stacked on top of each other. Corrosion can get between them. There could still be a problem with the 16 amp red wire lug. The 16 amp red wire from the bus bar feeds the lighting circuits via relays on the footwell/fuse panel and it also feeds the engine ECUs via fuses on that panel. The blue wire supplies power to the solenoids of the lighting relays and to various components of the engine management system. At the moment, I can't see any common relays or fuses for both the ECU and the lights, so it's most likely the red or blue wires causing your problems. Ah.. I thought I saw two blue wires on plug G in the photo. If there is, perhaps my theoretical jumper wire is longer than I thought or... plugs G and E are simply hooked up internally as (also) shown in the diagram. Looking forward to your further tests on the plugs. If you have power at the blue wires on plugs E and G, then we will have to turn to the red wire. I can't see the red wire plug in your photographs of the panel, but you can check for red wire power on the contacts of fuses 18 and 14 (Double check these numbers in your owners handbook.... they should be the fuses for the engine ECUs). Caution: these fuses normally have battery power hooked up to them all the time. You will get sparks removing or fitting them. Try to check the voltages without removing the fuses. Some fuses have little holes for fine voltmeter probes. If not, I recommend disconnecting the battery before pulling the fuses and prior to re-installing the fuses. Of course, you will have to reconnect the battery for the voltage checks. Note that if the 348 engine ECU's are like the 355's, they will have to go through the relearning process (idle for 5 minutes) every time they are depowered. Anway, I think we're getting closer to a solution ))) Cheers Ian.
Frank, just a thought... Before you start testing voltages... Do your Hazard Lights work? Your Hazard Lights use only red wire power (i.e. the red wire from the Battery Bus Bar to the footwell fuse/relay panel). If your Hazards Lights are not working.. or perhaps working dimly, we can assume that there is something wrong with red wire circuit. I've added the Hazard Light details to my diagram (red wire goes to Fuse 16) http://www.members.iinet.net.au/[email protected]/Ferrari348/Frank1.gif
Hazard lights are working I found the bus bar: it is behind the fuse board on the wall The Ground is next to it on the right The red cable 16 is going to the fuseboard This all looks fine, no corrosion nor damage Fuses 14, 16, 18 are all live The key switch also puts +12V on the blue wire (only one here) but the blue wire arriving at the fuseboard to plug E is dead So looking under the dash I saw that it is rerouted coming from the key switch Must be to going the alarm I guess I will try short circuiting this in the afternoon My phone was charging so no foto's made
Excellent work, Frank. If it wasn't the red or blue wire, I think Mike's rodents were next on the list I just hope that alarm isn't hooked up to other things. Cheers, Ian.
No sign of rodents Well it started, no problems Foto of bus bar, it has a black cover Made a little tour although the weather was not so nice Parking lights are on Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Excellent! Thanks for the pictures. I was wondering where that bus bar was. It looks quite cosy and warm there (I imagined it to be near the battery and perhaps more exposed to the weather). Well, for what it is worth, I think we both know a lot more about the 348 electrical system than we did before Another win for FChat Cheers Ian. P.S. Would it be ok if I use some of your photos to help FChatters with similar problems in the future?
