348 TS Overheating

Discussion in '348/355' started by Kevinbag, Oct 30, 2007.

  1. Kevinbag

    Kevinbag Karting

    Apr 6, 2007
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    Kevin Agnew
    My 1990 348 TS is overheating if the revs are under 1800 and standing still or moving slowly in traffic. I have just had a major service done and new thermostat, new sensor, new radiator cap. It was doing it before the service as well. The fans are working correctly and it does'nt loose any coolant. As the temp climbs the fans come on as they should, but the temp keeps climbing. If I increase the revs to about 2200 the temp comes down to where it should be in seconds. The Ferrari mechanic says that there is not enough circulation through the radiators and is suggests that the radiators need to come out to be cleaned out properly.
    Another problem I am having because of this is that if I switch the engine off with the temp slightly above normal the starter motor will not swing until the engine has cooled down a bit(the fans are on). As I swing the key all I hear is the fans and a clicking sound?

    I will greatly appreciate any help and advice you guys can give me.
     
  2. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Turn your heater "on" and to the hottest setting, then rebleed the air out of the cooling system, via the bleed nipples on the radiator feed tubes on the back of the fire wall. Do this while the car is idling, and after it has "warmed up". You can attach a tube to the bleed nipple to direct the hot coolant into a bucket. You want to make sure that you get all of the air out of the system, as some can get suck in the lines going to and from the heater core.

    As for the "clicking" check the connections to your battery. Make sure that the bullet connectors are clean and connected properly. There should be two of them. One will be under the air box, it goes from the (+) terminal on the battery to the starter. Then the other one should be right near the battery in the left rear, just behind the wheel well cover, going to the (-) terminal on the battery. Also check the grounds going to the frame, and to the transmission.
     
  3. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
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    The radiator theory could also be valid. My '87 328 is on its second radiator, and a '90 348 with original radiators is probably due just because of accumulated crud. A re-core isn't that expensive in a 308/328, probably not much worse in a 348. I'd be inclined to trust your mechanic on this. It probably isn't a big expense, and it would remove one variable.**


    ** Unless the engine has to come out for this. Not sure how that works in a 348. Maybe Ernie & co. can educate us.
     
  4. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Yeah I guess the radiator my need be taken to a shop to have them boil it out. But I would still try to rebleed the system first, couldn't hurt anything to try.
     
  5. gothspeed

    gothspeed F1 World Champ
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    .....sounds about right....
     
  6. No Doubt

    No Doubt Five Time F1 World Champ
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    1. When your motor is cold and off, open up your coolant reservoir. What color is your observed coolant? What is your coolant level?

    2. When your motor is hot and idling, check your engine oil. Look into the fill reservoir. Does it appear milky and/or bubbly? What level is shown on your dipstick?

    3. Plug a voltmeter into your cigarette lighter. What voltage is shown when the engine is:
    a. OFF
    b. IDLING
    c. Revving past 2200 RPMS

    Answer the above and the guys around here can probably fix you right up!
     
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  8. Kevinbag

    Kevinbag Karting

    Apr 6, 2007
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    Kevin Agnew
    Thank for the help.
    1. The coolant cold is green and is about 6cm from the top.
    2. The engine oil when hot is central between max & min and is definately not milky but the oil on the dipstick does appear to have some small bubbles in it.
    3. Cannot answer that now as it is the middle of the night here and the neighbours wont understand!! I will check tomorrow.

    I will also bleed the system as Ernie suggests
     
  9. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Nope engine does NOT need to come out to remove the radiators, they come out pretty easy. In a nut shell you remove the rear wheels, wheel well liners, drain and disconnect the radiators, remove the retaining bracket on the top, and then lift them up and out. There a few other things that do need to be moved out of the way, like the gas tank filler tubes, but still nothing big deal. You can have the left side radiator out on an hour or less.
     
  10. Kevinbag

    Kevinbag Karting

    Apr 6, 2007
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    Ok I have checked the voltages.
    Before starting = 11 V
    Idling = 34 V
    Over 22rpm = 34/35 V
    engine off = 15 V

    Does that sound right?
     
  11. TheOnlyest

    TheOnlyest Formula 3

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    34 volts at the lighter when your idling?!?! Thats a whole nuther problem!
     
  12. Kevinbag

    Kevinbag Karting

    Apr 6, 2007
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    Positive probe of the voltmeter in the lighter, negative on the gear lever shaft. What voltage should it be?
     
  13. BT

    BT F1 World Champ

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    Around 13-14.
    Are you sure you have your voltmeter set to the right range, and you are reading the correct scale?
    BTW I agree with having the radiator flushed out. Has anyone used one of those chemical enemas for their 348? It would be much easier to do than the removal of the radiator. I did one on my RV and it dropped the temp about by about 15 farenheit. I used the one that you add to the radiator and drive around for 5-6 hours then flush, rinse, and fill.
    BT
     
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  15. Kevinbag

    Kevinbag Karting

    Apr 6, 2007
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    I have bled the system again. With heater on max high. There was no air in the system.
     
  16. angelis

    angelis F1 Veteran
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    #14 angelis, Oct 31, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I had an overheating problem as well.

    First time it happened, i replaced the thermostat and the problem was still there. Turned out to be a piece of metal that blocked the thermostat closed.

    Second time was due to the state of the radiators themselves. 12 year old rads as seen below.
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  17. gothspeed

    gothspeed F1 World Champ
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    What is the coolant to water mixture? If one runs too much coolant, it will run hotter. Other than that, it may time for rebuilt/new radiators.... :(
     
  18. TheOnlyest

    TheOnlyest Formula 3

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    DC voltage in your car, or ANY car for that matter should not exceed 14 volts.. no matter what!
    In a 12 volt system, normal voltage range should be 11 to 14 volts. Most cars will sit at about 13-13.5V while driving.
     
  19. Standig

    Standig Karting

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    Did you have the water pump replaced with the 30k?

    It uses a plastic impeller that held by a cheap metal tang. If the tag is not tight the impeller can slip causing low flow.

    Low coolant as in air in system can cause problem.

    If fans turn on and you can feel the air pull thru the radiator is not electrical.

    I still could be low flow thru the radiator(s) .....

    However the only thing that happens when you rev the enging is making the water pump push the water.

    If you drive at say 50 mph does it over heat? If it does not I would think the radiators are fine.

    m2cents
     
  20. Llenroc

    Llenroc F1 Rookie
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    IIRC you can not recore the newer radiators if you will notice in the pics above those radiators(as all newer Fcars) have plastic tops and bottoms can't get them off and back on without problems. Also that plastic gets brittle over time and breaks fairly easy. If they are bad inside they will need to be replaced. This is a reason why Ferraris need their coolant changed ever year or at least every 2 years (a lot of cars sit to much). Use MB coolant or BMW coolant it is better quality stuff. Regards, vern
     
  21. No Doubt

    No Doubt Five Time F1 World Champ
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    The plastic radiator caps are just held on by metal tabs from the radiator core. Bend the metal tabs up and the plastic caps lift off easily.

    Place the caps back on and then bend the metal tabs back down to secure.
     
  22. No Doubt

    No Doubt Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Flushing out the radiators is a good idea, but best done with the radiator removed to avoid sending corrosion debris through the engine.

    It's only two bolts holding a single bracket that secures each radiator. You do have to unscrew two hose clamps to disconnect the coolant hoses to each, but all in all taking out a 348 radiator is easier (and quicker to do) than installing a CD player or unbolting a bumper.

    I yanked mine out, installed Gothshield shrouds, and re-installed during a single lunch break.
     
  23. No Doubt

    No Doubt Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Good post, but keep in mind that revving the engine will increase current output from the alternator (which might make a marginal fan functional) as well as push more water through the water pump.
     
  24. Llenroc

    Llenroc F1 Rookie
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    Radiator shops won't do (or at least good ones won't) it they break to easily and there is a rubber seal under the cap that can't be replaced and as I said before the plastic gets brittle and breaks after 10 or so years of use. They need to be replaced to be safe.
     
  25. No Doubt

    No Doubt Five Time F1 World Champ
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    I've taken mine off, made my own gasket, and replaced the black plastic radiator caps for my 348.

    They don't break easily. There are so many metal locking tabs that it's no big deal if you even break a couple of those, either.

    You can remove them by hand with a flat-blade screwdriver in minutes. It's a similar operation to removing the metal covers for your Motronic ECUs.

    No one should fear taking the caps off. There is nothing to it.
     
  26. Llenroc

    Llenroc F1 Rookie
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    Yeah sure ya did.. LOL. Like I said I wouldn't trust 10 or more year old plastic on a radaitor that needed repair and neither would a reputable radiator shop.
    Breaking a couple of tabs no big deal, crap this isn't some 10 year old chevy were talkin' here!? hahaha
     
  27. No Doubt

    No Doubt Five Time F1 World Champ
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    #25 No Doubt, Oct 31, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017

    No big deal. After getting your above post, I walked out into my garage, pulled my left side 348 radiator out of its Ferrari box (it's my spare, but it's been used for 12 years), and photodocumented taking off the "fragile" or "impossible" black plastic top.

    Emailed the photos to my home pc from my cell phone, complete with my old license plate so that you can't go claiming, as you are wont to do, that I just stole these pics from some other web site.

    Over time, Vern...you might learn that I back up everything that I say. Always have. Always will. Links. Photos. Whatever it takes. So whenever that little voice inside your head says to you that "No Doubt" won't be able to back up his claims, just keep in mind that you and that voice will always be proven wrong. Time after time. Again and again.
    See below.

    Pic1 is the left Ferrari 348 radiator zoomed on the plastic cap:
    Pic2 is the whole leftside Ferrari 348 radiator:
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