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348 TT vs WRX revisited

Discussion in '348/355' started by phong69, Sep 14, 2004.

  1. phong69

    phong69 Karting

    Aug 17, 2004
    226
    Raleigh, NC
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    Phong Nguyen
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  3. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
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    Pete
    Er, where are the non-believers? ... last time I read a thread along these lines we ALL agreed that a modified WRX would win against a 348 Ferrari.

    Again unless you are racing in a real race series ... then who gives a fnck ... and congrats to the WRX owner.

    Now put both cars on a race track and lets see what happens? ... WRX might win, but I think the Ferrari would make up a little through cornering speed.

    In the end we all know that Ferraris are not the fastest cars in the world, unless you can afford the Enzo ... and even then somebody else will always be faster.

    So I say again, unless this is a real race series ... I would not give a toss if somebody out dragged my 'future' Ferrari (if ever) or my current Alfa Romeo in a fully loaded people mover ... I'm still having fun, and making great noises.

    Pete
     
  4. phong69

    phong69 Karting

    Aug 17, 2004
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    Phong Nguyen
    No, there were a few members out there who would dispute that fact stating that no ricer could touch my f-car or my Viper or if I lost...... I would play it off as being a bad dream etc....... I would just like members of the forum to respect ALL cars because a true enthusiast would do so. In the past before I could afford to buy a Viper or a 360, I asked myself what kind of person I would become if I owned an exotic. Would I become a car snob or would still appreciate all cars especially the performance bargains out there. When I was growing up, it was Mustangs and Camaros, today its the EVOs and STIs. Amazing where technology has taken us. I did not mean to flame or anger anyone by this post, just expressing some thoughts. BTW I'm thinking about getting the Subie as my daily driver. What do you guys think?
     
  5. rifter

    rifter Formula Junior

    Dec 14, 2003
    299
    i think they're ugly.
     
  6. phong69

    phong69 Karting

    Aug 17, 2004
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    Phong Nguyen
    Yeah, I think they are ugly also but... it kicks the crap out of my TSX plus the awd is extra insurance when it snows.
     
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  8. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    I think they are great little cars, as are many of the modern Japanese vehicles. I always ensure that I own a Japanese car for the day to day running, because I know it will always start!

    In the end the Japanese make the best cars for transporting people ... maybe not for having fun, ... though cars like the Subaru WRX and many, many others are filling the gap.

    If one was to buy a car ignoring your heart, you would never buy anything but Japanese ... same with motorcycles.

    Pete
     
  9. notoboy

    notoboy F1 Rookie

    Jul 8, 2003
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    I'm still planning on getting either the Subie or the Mitsu, so you have my vote...
     
  10. rifter

    rifter Formula Junior

    Dec 14, 2003
    299
    ignoring your heart AND your eyes, yes, nobody would buy anything but japanese...
     
  11. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
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    I think you have to understand that many different types buy Ferraris (and I guess Vipers).

    Like it or not many DO buy Ferraris as a status symbols, plus many actually naively believe that they ARE the fastest cars on the road (inserting PSk laughing here).

    Not everybody like you and I live and breathe cars and have been involved to a wide spectrum of different vehicles and can appreciate what some offer that is different to others ... some just grew up making personal love to fast car magazine, etc.

    I happen to be fond of Italian cars because of the way they involve the driver and make driving rewarding ... and far, far away from just transport. I'm not rich enough to own a Ferrari anyway ... but if I was it would be an old one, not a new one, because I don't need that performance or that performance would not make the driving anymore fun than driving a late 60's or 70's Ferrari. I personally can't understand why they even make Supercars ...

    Pete
     
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  13. phong69

    phong69 Karting

    Aug 17, 2004
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    I agree with you on many points. I initially bought the Viper because the 996 turbo I had was not involving enough. It was an amazing vehicle but I felt it was overengineered and therefore not enough of a challenge to drive. After owning the Viper then getting to swap out the Porsche for the 360 it gives me the opportunity to experience different approaches to going fast. I don't plan to keep these cars forever. In reality I would like to flip them in about a year so I can experience the next best or worse thing. I must say, the 996 turbo is a perfect daily driver and I will probably buy another once we have kids but for now....
     
  14. bigodino

    bigodino F1 World Champ
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    Apr 29, 2004
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    Peter den Biggelaar
    Hi,

    If race series are anything to go by then I should add that I've witnessed such racing between BMW M3's and Ferrari Mondials in the late eighties and the Ferraris lost.

    For the money one would expect that a Ferrari would blow the doors off of a WRX...but they don't. Who cares? They were not built for the same purpose, were they? but you can put them alongside eachother on the road (or dragstrip, or track) so it's not surprising that people do so. And they like to talk about it too. And how their car was faster etc. etc. That's people's nature. I'm on a WRX forum too and it's the same there.

    Ofcourse you will always have narrowminded people who think that their car is fastest of all.

    p.s. when I follow the classic Ferraris on backroads during the Tour Auto in my Impreza I'm really impressed by the speed and roadholding of those classics! Granted I carry more weight due to 4 people and their luggage onboard, but still.
     
  15. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
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    That does not surprise me the BMW M3 is a master piece of the engineering ... the Ferrari Mondial of the 80's, er, was a huge compromise.

    Good point, but I atleast understand that you pay a lot of money for a Ferrari because it has the 'Ferrari' badge ... not because it is a better car. Also I could make any car (just about) faster than a Ferrari or a WRX ... it just takes money and time. Thus in the end is it such a big deal that your car is faster than X car ... unless you are winning a big trophy at the end and ALL playing to the same rules, who cares (like you say).

    Yes we need these people so we can have a laugh :D

    Yep and in 20 years time somebody will be saying the same about the 348 and probably the WRX (if any survive ... hopefully).

    Pete
     
  16. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

    Jun 20, 2003
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    Let me first just start off by saying that I have an old and slow 308 that can probably get beaten in a drag race with a mildly hopped up Civic, nevermind an STi. I didn't buy it to race. It's beautiful in a way that a WRX will never be. I bought it because it's beautiful, makes good sounds, and is fun to drive. I don't drag race, street race, or have any interest whatsoever in attempting to prove anything to anyone when I'm driving it. What I'm saying is I couldn't care less who is faster than me.

    BUT, if I did....it's interesting to note that this thread (and the one that it sprang from) are both comparing the WRX STi (a modern, super-tuned, turbo-charged high performance car that is the top of the line, highest performance model for Subaru) with a 15 year old Ferrari that was the second least expensive model available from Ferrari at the time. (I think the Mondial was less, could be wrong). If you are going to compare apples to apples, lets compare the STi with a modern Ferrari, or compare a 15 year old Subaru with the 348. It proves nothing to say that Subaru can make a car that is faster than a 15 year old Ferrari. Big deal!

    The 355 was faster than the 348. The 360 is faster than the 355 and the 430 will be faster than the 360. This is progress.

    I assure you that the current cheapest NEW Ferrari on the market (the "lowly" 360) will kick the STi's butt in any race, drag racing or track racing. Sure, it costs 5 times as much, but nobody mentioned price yet. :)

    Birdman
     
  17. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    Er, probably ... but those STi's are bloody fast in a drag race thanks to the 4wd, etc.

    We need to look at performance figures before making such a brave claim.

    You see the thing is that nowadays even a cheap car is capable of atleast 100 mph. Infact most normal family cars would give 130mph a nudge.

    Thus the gap between cars like a Ferrari and the humblest cheap road car has closed a fair bit. Thus a STi is NOT a humble cheap road car, but a car with lots of standard performance and heaps of modified performance.

    If I bought a F430 ... er, I'd not bet loads of money on beating one ;)

    Pete
     
  18. sk90077

    sk90077 Formula Junior

    Jun 25, 2004
    389
    My friends WRX has 1000hp and will smoke anyone of our cars. He is on the streets of CA so WATCH OUT!
     
  19. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    :D ... haha that is appropriate for this thread.

    I thought though that the Scoobies gearboxes struggled above 500hp ;)

    Pete
     
  20. sk90077

    sk90077 Formula Junior

    Jun 25, 2004
    389
    I dont know but he runs a 9.53 in the 1/4
     
  21. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    Very fast!!, but it does not fit in this thread. After all are the Ferrari owners allowed to modify their cars too??

    To be fair one has to compare standard with standard ... If one compared cost basis, ie. $Car + $mods versus others for same cost ... Ferrari would come way last!

    Pete
     
  22. sk90077

    sk90077 Formula Junior

    Jun 25, 2004
    389
    I agree. I cant stand those POS. Its amazing to me how they can make those 20k cars so fast. I bring it up because of what was mentioned earlier in the thread
     
  23. zakeen

    zakeen Formula Junior
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    Aug 29, 2004
    984
    Czech Republic
    your comparing chalk and cheese~~~~~~~~

    I have a 520HP GT4(toyota), it is down turn to 520HP so it last a little longer. Buy the same mods to mine is a copy of one in Japan that puts out 1025HP. I spent the big bucks and did it the proper way so it will last 200,000 with flogging it, day in day out.

    Now I want to buy a Ferraris 348 next month.

    Now on paper my GT4 will kill my 348 in all area's. But I am still going out to buy a 348.....but one day I will mod it up to around 600-700hp.

    Now why they are chalk and cheese, cause if I took all the mods off my GT4 and put them on my 348. HOLY SHTI!!!!! that would be F-N scary!

    So you take of the turbo, the intercooler and high tech computer that comes with these things standard and try and race a ferrari you will lose big time.

    These Jap cars are running at there best and most of the time in the REDZONE!
     
  24. phong69

    phong69 Karting

    Aug 17, 2004
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    Phong Nguyen
    And... you think your 700 hp 348 will last how long?
     
  25. jharkercfduc

    jharkercfduc Karting

    Sep 4, 2004
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    riverside california
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    jonathan harker
    exactly zakeen. imo if you want: A. fast get a turbo hyabusa B. handles get something that is made to handle C. fast and sexy and handles get a ducati. D. fast and sexy and caries more than one person, put a norwood twin turbo on a mondial t(348 motor). I'm selling my ducati to get a mondial and I will sooner or later put a turbo in it. don't need 600-700 hp, 350-400 will be fine. also (a fast car may or may not be sexy, but a sexy car can always be made to go fast, your wallet is the limit.)
     
  26. zakeen

    zakeen Formula Junior
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    Aug 29, 2004
    984
    Czech Republic
    No but yes, My GT4 will last cause I spent big time on it, but I will drive it a lot more then a 348. To have 600-700hp from a 348 to last long would be a full rebuild with stronger internals, and dropping the rev limiter, would have to see cost factor on this one. But I assume its a F-N lot.

    But, I dont expect to get the same amount of miles on a 348 compared to my GT4, but it will last longer because I might put 20,000km a year on my GT4 and only 4,000kms a year on a 348.

    I should get 200,000kms on my GT4, so that should give me about 10years.

    So lets say engine last for......80,000kms on the 348. Thats about 20years! So to me thats a long time.

    And by then petorl cars will be banned!
     
  27. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
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    Believe or not, Ferrari uses really good stuff inside and there really aren't stronger internal parts. You could drop the compression a bit and use slightly wider rings, but that is about it. Then run the boost to about 18-20psi (you need stiffer valve springs over 15psi I'm told) and you'll hit your target. My supercharged 308 makes 425rwhp, so about 520 crank at 18 psi, and hits 22 psi at redline, all stock inside except rings and valve springs. There is a 355tt kicking out 520rwhp (630 crank) at 10psi with all stock internals, including the 11:1 compression ratio. I had to go to triple disc carbon-carbon clutch to hold it, but the 355 appears to be working with the stock clutch. Good luck!
     

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