348 turn signal problem | FerrariChat

348 turn signal problem

Discussion in '348/355' started by paul01, Oct 3, 2023.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. paul01

    paul01 Karting

    Jul 31, 2011
    104
    Hi,
    it is a 1991 348 TS Euro.
    Turn signal left side is working. Turn signal right side not. That means that all 3 lamps outside are not flashing.

    I want to exchange the 32 years old relay. Do somebody knows a substitute for the original Italamec 73352 e.g. from Bosch, Hella,....
    I found the other threads mentioning the original relay.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Regards
    Paul
     
  2. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 22, 2011
    3,168
    Malaysia - KL
    Full Name:
    Miroljub Stojanovic
    I don't think the problem is in the flasher relay because the same output (pin) of the relay flashes the Left and the Right side as well as all indicators when the hazrd switch is "on". In other words, if the flasher relay flashes one side, it is good. How's the operation of your hazard lights?

    I suggest you check the multi-pin connector of the column switch then the contacts of the switch itself. The wire for the right side indicator lights, section from the indicator switch to the connector, should be Light Blue.
     
    greg328, paul01 and ernie like this.
  3. paul01

    paul01 Karting

    Jul 31, 2011
    104
    Thank you m.stojanovic. Hazard lights work normal.

    "multi-pin connector of the column switch" is witch one / where ?
     
  4. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 22, 2011
    3,168
    Malaysia - KL
    Full Name:
    Miroljub Stojanovic
    Look from the switches on the steering column and further down the column. You will probably have to remove the covers around the steering column, maybe the steering wheel as well. I have not done this work on my 348 so I cannot give you exact instructions. Serch the forum. If you google for the 348 column switch, you will see pictures of it which will give you the idea of what is involved.
     
    paul01 likes this.
  5. paul01

    paul01 Karting

    Jul 31, 2011
    104
    #5 paul01, Oct 3, 2023
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2023
  6. paul01

    paul01 Karting

    Jul 31, 2011
    104
    15 minutes ogo:
    The relay is clicking with double speed on the right side. We know that from other cars when one lamp is defect. But all 3 lamps do not work on the right side.

    I am not sure if i ignored the clicking sound yesterday while engine is running.

    But: Can it be the manual switch or the connector now ?
     
  7. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 20, 2015
    13,884
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Ian Riddell
    #7 Qavion, Oct 3, 2023
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2023
    Are you saying the right side is not illuminating at all when using the column switch, or illuminated but not flashing? Is your arrow symbol illuminating?

    Because your latest message says that you can hear clicking, the steering column switch should be working, although I'm not sure what effect a high resistance switch contact would have.
     
    greg328 likes this.
  8. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 20, 2015
    13,884
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Ian Riddell
    How accessible is this connector on the steering column?

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    In theory, you could short out some wires on this plug to prove/disprove a faulty switch. i.e. any of the blue only wires to the white/black wire on the car side of the connector. i.e. not the blue wires with black stripe.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    e.g. pin 3 to pin 6 with the ignition on.

    The plug may look like this (looking at the face of the plug, not the wire side), although it's hard to tell from the photo.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Maybe Miro has a better photo?
     
    paul01 likes this.
  9. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 20, 2015
    13,884
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Ian Riddell
    Actually, that may not work, as jumping those two wires on the "car" side will only provide power to the front flashers. You would have to jump all the blue (only) wires to the white/black wire.
     
  10. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 22, 2011
    3,168
    Malaysia - KL
    Full Name:
    Miroljub Stojanovic
    The indicator switch seems to be detachable from the cluster as there appear to be four screws on it (detail from picture at Maranello Parts):
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    If it can be detached, then its contacts can be inspected/cleaned.

    Picture of the other side of the cluster shows the LightBlue (RH indicators), LightBlue/Black (LH indicators) and Whte/Black (to flasher relay) wires entering the opening below the indicator switch:
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    paul01 likes this.
  11. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 22, 2011
    3,168
    Malaysia - KL
    Full Name:
    Miroljub Stojanovic
    #11 m.stojanovic, Oct 4, 2023
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2023
    With regard to the Italamec Flasher Relay (not at fault in this case), it can be replaced with any 3-pin flasher relay as long as its pinout is the same as that of Italamec. Italamec pinout:
    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Examples of aftermarket flasher relays (that are also suitable for LED bulbs) with same pinout:
    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Hella 3-pin flasher relays appear to have the same pinout as Italamec.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    paul01 likes this.
  12. paul01

    paul01 Karting

    Jul 31, 2011
    104
    Thank you both for the answers.
    right side is not illuminating at all
    arrow symbol...i have to look again.


    Relay is clicking with double speed using right side indicator on the steering column..
     
  13. paul01

    paul01 Karting

    Jul 31, 2011
    104
    Image Unavailable, Please Login (Source: m.stojanovic)
    31 is ground
    49 is input
    49a is output
    That means: Nothing separate left/right. Left indication is working -> Relay is ok.
     
    Qavion likes this.
  14. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 20, 2015
    13,884
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Ian Riddell
    Correct. There was a recent post on this. The flashing is simply triggered when the flasher output circuit senses a change of resistance (i.e. when the bulbs are connected to the circuit when the column stalk is moved)

    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/149316153/

    That is a somewhat long and confusing thread on a flasher problem. We don't have a diagram for USA cars which complicated the thread somewhat. By the way, where are you from? You may be able to help us understand the USA bulb configuration.

    The lamp is in parallel with the stalk switch wiring. It probably isn't illuminating.
     
  15. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 22, 2011
    3,168
    Malaysia - KL
    Full Name:
    Miroljub Stojanovic
    The flasher relay will start flashing when a load (indicator bulbs) is connected to its Pin 49a. If, in indicator mode, the load is less than a minimum expected, like when one of the 21W bulbs is out, the flasher will flash at double speed. In your case, the RH indicator bulbs are all good since they flash in the hazard mode. The fact that the flasher relay is clicking in the RH indicator position suggests that you have high resistance somewhere along the route from the RH contacts in the indicator switch to, and including, the pins 3 and 10 of the multi-pin connector. The high resistance could provide just enough load on the flasher relay to make it start clicking but prevent lighting-up of the indicator bulbs.

    Pin 3 of the connector is for RH Front and small side indicator bulbs; Pin 10 is for the RH Rear bulb and the warning light in the instrument cluster. Since it is unlikely that both pins 3 and 10 develop resistance at the same time, are you sure that neither front/side nor rear indicator bulbs are flashing?

    If neither front nor rear indicators are flashing (while the relay is clicking at double speed), then it is more likely that the problem is at the "R" contact (Light Blue wire) of the indicator switch.
     
  16. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 20, 2015
    13,884
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Ian Riddell
    Ooops... Looks like I mislabelled my wiring diagram again.

    Corrected here (and added a plug graphic):

    Euro: https://www.dropbox.com/t/c6fF48CexdVE5UOA

    I've added these letters to the lines
    f = front
    s = side
    i = instrument panel
    r = rear
     
  17. paul01

    paul01 Karting

    Jul 31, 2011
    104
    Now we have some results.

    But first the questions:
    "are you sure that neither front/side nor rear indicator bulbs are flashing?" -> yes sure.
    "Is your arrow symbol illuminating?" -> No. Not for the right side, only for left indication.
    "where are you from?" -> Black Forest in Germany.

    Result: It is working again. It was the manual column switch.

    I have used only some contact spray here:
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    If the problem comes back i will open the switch and clean it.

    Thanks so much for the help m.stojanovic and Qavion.
    Paul
     
    Qavion likes this.
  18. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Ten Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 10, 2005
    100,199
    Mount Isa, Australia
    Full Name:
    Pap
    Good man, cheers for this.

    I just got my 348 back from it's major service and the flasher can was sticking, but after I used the indicators around 10x times it came good lol.

    Good to have this information but, thank you.
     
  19. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 22, 2011
    3,168
    Malaysia - KL
    Full Name:
    Miroljub Stojanovic

Share This Page