348 vapor canister purge valve removal | FerrariChat

348 vapor canister purge valve removal

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by ernie, Apr 30, 2009.

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  1. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #1 ernie, Apr 30, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Well guys lighting has struck yet again.

    What is it this time you ask?

    Why my fuel tank, which is just finished FIXING a few months ago, has decided to start imploding and crushing itself like a beer can.
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  2. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #2 ernie, Apr 30, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    What is the cause?

    One of these little bastards, the vapor canister purge valve, decided to go bad on me in the OPEN position! Because it was stuck open it was sucking out the air in the tank when I was driving. FOOKING-A!!!!!! When will the **** end with the car?!?!?! And get this, I never got a check engine light for the failed valve.
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  3. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #3 ernie, Apr 30, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    So here is how I removed it.

    First remove the 10mm for the retaining clips holding the purge valves to the side of the charcoal canister bracket.
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  4. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #4 ernie, Apr 30, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  5. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #5 ernie, Apr 30, 2009
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  6. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #6 ernie, Apr 30, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Before we replace the valve we need to find out which purge valve/s is faulty. What I did was to leave the plugs still attached to the valves. Then I started the car and let it idle. Placing my thumbs over the openings I could feel what valve had vacuum and what valve did not. Once I found the valve that had the vacuum I disconnected the plug and swapped it with the one that was not drawing vacuum to make sure the connectors weren't bad. When the connector plug is attached to the purge valve while the car was idling the valve that was good did not draw a vacuum. When I disconnected the plug from the valve that wasn't drawing a vacuum it then began to suck in air as soon as the plug was disconnected, and then stopped sucking air as soon as it was reconnected. The bad valve was sucking no matter if the plug was connected or disconnected.
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  7. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #7 ernie, Apr 30, 2009
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  8. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #8 ernie, Apr 30, 2009
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  9. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #9 ernie, Apr 30, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Now that you have the purge valve out it needs to be removed from the vacuum line. To do this you must cut the clamp off holding the line to the valve. I used a pair of wire cutters and squeezed the crap out of them. It took a good bit of force to cut the clamp, but it did come off.
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  10. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #10 ernie, Apr 30, 2009
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  11. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #11 ernie, Apr 30, 2009
    Now for some comedy.

    I called a couple of Ferrari dealers and they wanted, drum roll........................................ $745 for ONE purge valve, even though it is listed as two items in the parts manual.

    HAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!

    What do we know about Ferrari kids? They are over charging cheap bastards.

    Is Ernie going to pay retarded (oooooooo I said retarded :D :p) prices for a valve that they DO NOT Make? Nope!
     
  12. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #12 ernie, Apr 30, 2009
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  13. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #13 ernie, Apr 30, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2009
    After doing some homework, you just gotta love the internet, I found out that the purge valve was used on a whole lot of different cars. I'll just stick to the ones that where least least expensive.

    Here are the cars it is found on:

    1992 BMW (E36) 318i, ic, is
    1991-1992 (E34) 535i
    BMW part number 13901726705
    About $100-$118 from a BMW dealer

    1993 Hyundai Scoupe
    Hyundai part number 28910-22000
    Around $140 from the dealer

    1995 Kia Sportage
    The cheapest I found was about $45, but was sure if it was compatible, but they ranged around $88-$140.


    So Ferrari's mark up on this little part they do not make is in the 600%+ range. Sorry but "homie don't play da".

    Some of the other Ferrari's that use the same purge valve are:
    456
    512tr, m
    355 (I'm imagining it's on the '95 2.7 Motronic cars)
    Mondial t
     
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  14. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #14 ernie, Apr 30, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2009
    Well boys that's how you remove the vapor canister purge valve on a 348, Stooge Style!!!!

    Happy Wrenching.

    Now GO CHECK YOUR PURGE VALVES before they start crushing your gas tank like mine.
     
  15. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #15 ernie, Apr 30, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2009
    Forgot something.

    When I tried to remove the gas cap it was sucked shut on the filler neck. I had to pop it off, and after I did I heard a "whooooosh" of air rushing IN the tank. So if you ever have that happen, check those valves immediately!

    I'm still pissed that the check engine light never came one for these. And yes both of my c.e.l.'s light up.

    Now I just have to figure out how I'm gonna get the tank to pop back out????
     
  16. FandLcars

    FandLcars F1 Rookie

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    #16 FandLcars, Apr 30, 2009
    Ernie - Thanks again for posting! This thread is an important headsup! Sorry you are having so many issues with your car, but at least it's happening to an owner who can and will post for the benefit of others. Thanks again!! :)
     
  17. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #17 ernie, Apr 30, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2009
    Thanks for the pat on the back Rick. If it is something that hasn't been posted before I really do my best to post it up for the rest of the gang, and I know this one hasn't been covered yet. Plus this part doesn't only come on the 348, it come on several other Ferrari's. Seriously though, GO CHECK YOUR PURGE VALVES!!! You really don't want this to happen to your tank.

    I also have an update.

    Called another Hyundai dealer and they have the part for $86.96. Yeah BABY, that's what I'm talking about!

    Fricken Ferrari, charging $745 for an $87 dollar part. There is nothing wrong with making a profit, but OVER charging $658 for a part is a pure rip off. That is an insane markup of over 750%. I just cannot imagine having to pay $150 hour labor + $745 for the part, and you know they would have made you buy two. So that bill "could" have looked like $1640, when in reality it only costs $174 doing it yourself to replace BOTH valves = a HUGE savings of $1466 eeeeeeeasy. Honestly, if it wasn't for me being able to do my own work I do think I would ever own a Ferrari.

    Well I'm off to the dealer to put the order in, the Hyundai dealer that is. Hahahaha!!!
     
  18. gidge348

    gidge348 Formula Junior

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    #18 gidge348, Apr 30, 2009
    If you put it that way, you have basically made $1466 for 2 hours work.... I don't know about you but my job pays well, but not THAT well.....

    Great post will check mine now.... :)
     
  19. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #19 fatbillybob, Apr 30, 2009
    That probably helped break your tank the last time. When the can crushes it pops the spot welds and the internal baffle floats. Now you got good welds and the can crushes. Force is related to how much gas you ran out of the tank and resultant vac. What do you think about that?
     
  20. FandLcars

    FandLcars F1 Rookie

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    #20 FandLcars, Apr 30, 2009
    Pretty sad when Ferrari treats owners the way some unscrupulous back-road gas station would. "Hey, this guy drives a Ferrari, let's soak him on the repair bill!"
     
  21. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #21 ernie, May 1, 2009
    Nope the tank was perfectly fine, except for the busted spot welds.
     
  22. mike

    mike Formula Junior

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    #22 mike, May 1, 2009
    Great Post


    mike
     
  23. Miltonian

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    #23 Miltonian, May 1, 2009
    Last edited: May 1, 2009
    Ernie; Have you done an autopsy on the failed valve to see what happened to it?

    If it had a physical failure (stuck/torn diaphragm, foreign object/gunk/rust inside, etc.) then perhaps that would not trigger a failure code (1124) in the self-diagnostics. In the electrical sense, it may have been operating correctly.

    Did you check to see if there was any sign that the charcoal canister was also imploding?

    Edit: Wow, I just thought of this. I remember back about 1979, when I was working at a Fiat dealership, I once saw an X1/9, almost new, that had a total failure of the charcoal canister. All of the little pebbles, hundreds of them, came out and blocked the associated vacuum hoses. Just for research, maybe you should take the canister out and shake it around. It MAY be possible (????) that a pebble got into the purge valve and caused it to stick open. Maybe the valve is OK, just something stuck in it?
     
  24. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #24 ernie, May 1, 2009
    All good tips Jeff, but the charcoal canister is fine. I actually removed it today and blew air through it. Plus if one of the charcoal bits had gotten through it would have block the air passage = no vacuum. The valve was stuck open and thus kept sucking an started imploding the tank, so I don't think that there was anything blocking it. I haven't opened up the valve yet. But, soon as I get the new ones and have installed them, it will be time for a purge valve autopsy.
     
  25. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #25 ernie, May 1, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here is how I removed the charcoal canister.

    First remove the vacuum line on the bottom nipple. That is the line that is coming from the gas tank, and has the roll over valve connected to it.
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