What started as a kinda funny problem has turned rather bizarre. A few days ago I drove down to the F1 gathering here in Indy. I haven't driven the car a whole lot lately but everything was fine until I got home and turned the car off... then the gas door popped open. That's weird, so I turned the ignition on then back off again and sure enough it opened again. Did it a couple more times for fun then heard a slight buzzing sound from the I think the driver ECU, I didn't like that so I pulled the key out and the ignition lights stayed on! Disconnected the battery to deal with it later. I'm thinking ground issue but here's some addtl info: - gas cap doesn't pop open upon turn off now and functions fine - radio has locked up a few times (can't turn it off or anything) - if temp was above around 190 when pull into garage, fans used to run if turn key back only 1 notch - not anymore - footwell fusebox instrument light has a 15a in it instead of a 10 - relay for the LH rad fan looks melted a little - not sure? (see pic) - main ground from footwell fusebox has tear in surrounding plastic (see pic) ...all I got for now... How do you get that darn fusebox ground cable off? I don't want to break it.. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Did you do something unItalian like wet vac your floormats or carpet? I ask because it sounds as though at least 3 relays (p, i, and e) are acting up on you at once.
At 1:00AM, I can't get too deep into thought on this, but the first thing I would do would be too make a physical check on the left radiator fan. First, just look down there and see if there is a rat nest or something that might be keeping the fan from turning properly. Then, get down on your knees and reach up from below and see if you can turn the blade by hand. Of course it's much easier to see if you remove the wheel and the inner fender liner, but you can reach it enough to find out if it's stuck. I'm thinking that possibly the relay overheated because the fan was stuck, then connector "J" on the fuse panel may have melted and cross-circuited???
You are melted buddy. Aren't ferraris fun. I would have loved to see that fuel door pop open when the engine turns off. ROFLMAO! I feel your pain. That's what happens when luigi thinks wiring is like pasta just throw it on a plate. You are going to have to back trace circuits to see what is fried and fix them. Look through your wiring for melted and shorted stuff. Therre is a bundle of wries right over the LR fender that pwers the L radiator fan, fuel door but the head lights went screwy too and those run from the box to the front so my WAG is the short is near your Fuse box or IN your fusebox. I have removed these boxes opened them up and resoldered all connections in the fusebox. Wait until you open that masterful piece of (sh^t) I mean engineering.
Anyone here ever have a brief moment of being......overwhelmed? I pulled that other side panel off and .... all the frikin wires! it's like they were just shoved in there! Anyway, nope haven't done any wet-vac stuff or even driven in the rain. RAD fan blades do turn freely. No visible blown fuses. The stereo is aftermarket so I wonder if some of these probs are related to how it was wired in..? Back to that ground cable - anyone know how to remove it form the box? I don't want to snap it with my superhuman strength!
Miltonian and FBB are giving you the right clues. You've got at least one fully fried relay, and at least 3 relays are acting up...so look for burn marks on the insulation of your wires (easy to scan visually) and if no obvious culprit is handy then you'll be going into the inner workings of that floor panel fusebox. Power goes to the relays, then from the relays to their fuses, so a relay can fry via a short anywhere behind its fuse. Your problem might even be that a relay itself got old or rusty or wet and shorted inside itself (there is a circuit inside each one). Perhaps it might be easiest to simply remove relays p, j, and e and then see if everything else on your car functions normally. You might get lucky and be able to quickly and easily isolate your problem circuitry.
Cleaned everything up and removed a few unnecessary stereo wires. Replaced the relay for the LH Rad fan and cleaned up it's connection. Checked and cleaned the small "bus bar" with grounds behind box. Inspected all wires coming out of box also. Plugged everything back in and put the fuse box back (which seemed to be a super tight fit - is this a problem?). As soon as I turned the battery back on, I heard the seat belt move and beeping from inside like when you turn the key to 1st position in ignition. Advice above seems to indicate the footwell box... I think you're right. Too many un-related problems to be a single short in a wire/wire harness. Unless there's something I'm overlooking...? Doing the major next Thursday, I'm hoping to resolve this before then.
Did you remove (not replace) relays p, j, and e to see if everything else on your car functions normally? You might get lucky and be able to quickly and easily isolate your problem circuitry.
Here's a picture from an old thread that shows how bad a fuse panel can look on the inside. If it's toast, you aren't going to be able to fix it, it will have to be replaced. But in this case, the problem was due to water infiltration. In your case, if you have a problem OUTSIDE the fuse panel that caused overheating and meltdown INSIDE the panel, you don't want to have the same thing happen again. So keep trying to isolate what happened. Good luck! Image Unavailable, Please Login
Are thinking of photocopying the sheets so that you can have new pcb's printed at your whim, or simply that you need to remove where the corrosion connects points that shouldn't be connected?!
Just found something which was overlooked. In the manual, "S" is the central door locking ECU. It is attached & grounded via 1 phillips screw behind the metal plate which sits above the box. It literally was ready to fall off. I cannot remember... Does anyone know when you goto your car and open the door (before key has been installed): - does your dome light come on? - seat belt chaser move? - can you lock / unlock your doors via the swith on console?
ok - I tried several differnt combinations and it appears all the problems occur when the gas door relay "P" is installed. When I turn on the battery with no key installed: - Current goes to gas door solenoid and engages. I swapped with a known good relay with same results. - Both CEL lights come on - Beeping from inside cabin occurs With relay "P" removed and no key installed: - no beeping, gas door does not pop open, no cel lights. For kicks, I disconnected the wire harness to the 4 buttons (dome,locks,gas) on the center console also... Same problems when relay is installed. What next? Follow & test wire harness back to solenoid or dis-assemble fuse box?
Yup. Nice job narrowing down the problem, by the way. One relay/circuit area is a lot less to trouble shoot than the entire wiring harness!
Miltonian, I can make a new circuit board if I had a negative (black & white) scaled graphic of the PCB.
My fuse panels are fine - that picture is just for illustration purposes, to show what the inside of the box looks like. But it's good to know that the printed circuit sheets may be able to be reproduced in a pinch. WAY over my head!
After looking at the elec diagram I noticed relay E also goes to the horn as well. Which works without the key installed. Now I know I can honk and tell people to stay out of my son!!! (insert michael jacskon joke). On the small "bus bar" ground bolted to frame under left knee driver side (it has 8 male pins on it). How many are utilized? I only have 7 wires connected.
+1 ....... Took me [because I had limited time] about four months of tracing, rewinring, and fixing...jerked out all the seats, panels etc....THEN took about a month finding a new fuse box....your just going to LOVE the wiring you see. when you pull a panel, see if luigi signed his name in there...if so...put out a hit man...good luck.
* HOLDING MY BREATH HERE * After looking at the elec diagrams for a couple hours again last night... I re-visted all the grounds. Not just the connections themselves but following the wires. I also sprayed the hell outa them with elec cleaner and then wire brushed them again. Ends that were questionable were re-done. I also bought a new hot wire tracer (pretty handy). I wish it was more sensitive though... I'm still convinced that the lack of room behind the footwell fusebox is somewhat to blame for this. You guys are right about the PASTA! Found a couple really crimped/smashed wires and also a bad elec tape job on a few others too. Anyway, turned on the battery and......NO BEEPING OR GAS CAP PROBLEM!! I actually turned it on and off a few times to make sure it wasn't a fluke. Next is some Ibuprofen. I can't twist up like a monkey liike that for long. Next question - Does anyone's horn work without the ignition key? Or is this my next Columbo investigation?
To answer your question ....my horn works all the time. The car randomly shuts off when driving different kind of issue. But I think horn is normal. Serafino
